428 ford looking for some help.
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428 ford looking for some help.

  1. #1

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    Default 428 ford looking for some help.

    I have a long thread going in the V-drive section looking for suggestions for my 428. I thought I'd run it past you guys, didn't know if everyone watches all the sections or not. Here's the link:
    http://www.performanceboats.com//showthread.php?t=14544

    I have the boat home and then engine apart and was hoping to run some more information past you for any suggestions you may have.

    As I mentioned before, it's a 428 block (C6ME-A with the A welded in behind the flywheel) which tells me it is a standard 428 block. The Heads are C8OE-N, which is the 428 CJ/SCJ heads. The heads have the 4 exhaust bolts and the airpump ports. Stock rods (C6AE-C) with ARP bolts. Pistons are TRW 2245F, which I beleive are forged 9.5:1 pistons. I can't find anymore information on the pistions, i will have to go on a TRW forum and ask some questions. The cylinders are bored +0.030", the crank is 20/20. I had a lunati #00054 hydraulic, I have the cam card but I'm thinking it's irrelevent since I don't want to re-use it. I have been using an aluminum interceptor manifold, I have a new Dove manifold that I would like to use moving forward. I have a DUI HEI ignition, 22 degrees at 3400. I'm running a 750 double pumper holley, this could change but I'd like to stay with one carb if possible.

    The boat has a Casale top-loader V-drive with 18 over gears and a crappy 2 blade junk yard reject prop. It also has an 1-1/8" prop shaft.

    Here's what I'm thinking about doing, let me know what you think. I would like to re-bearing and ring the bottom end. Specify a new cam and lifters. Get ideas on the heads, what can I do with mine vs the edelbrock aluminum. Will they flow more or is the difference mainly in the weight? Can use some education here. I beleive I need to change the gearing, Joe Shelfo says 12 degree and I'm good to go with that. Anyone know where I can get a set of 12 degree gears for a casale top loader? I also intend to change the prop. The boat should feel a bit different.

    The boat ran 65 on GPS porposing like crazy, it just couldn't seem to stay up on top of the water. I was only getting about 5200 RPM, hard to tell exactly because the needle was jumping around so much due to porposing.

    Here's the question of the day. How do I go 81 MPH?

    Thanks in advance for all your help and suggestions. DB

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  3. #2
    I'm famous ! Lucky's Avatar
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    22 deg total timing ?
    " my carbon footprint is gonna kick your green ass"


    Quote Originally Posted by 396_Ways_To_Spit View Post
    WOWO!!!!! THat has to be the most beautiful crank that Ive ever seen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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    I don't know shit about the prop and gear question, but ditch the stock heads and get a ported set of alumi Edlebrock, bump the compression to 10.5, ditch the 750 dp, put an 850 on it. Is the Dove a dual-plane or single plane ? Use a Comp or Crane cam preferably solid flat tappet.

    Check the bottom of the boat to see how straight it is change your prop and put a 150 HP Nos shot on it you'll get your 81 mph and then some.

    With current heads the timing should be approx 36* at > 3,600.

    Sleeper CP
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    Senior Member gregb's Avatar
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    Stock your CJ heads flow about 235CFM @ .5" of valve lift on the intake, a set of ported Edelbrocks will flow about 310CFM depending on who does the porting. Don't know what your budget is but call http://www.keithcraft.com/ if you want a set of ported heads. You can sell the CJ heads, they go from 500 to 1000 depending on condition and date codes, or you can have them ported, I think you'll find most of the gains in the bowl area, and you can go to a 2.15 inch intake valve from the stock 2.09. 2245 TRW were the forged replacements for the 428 PI engine back in the day, 10:1 or so would have been what they were supposed to be, but 9 to 9.5 is what they probably are in reality. If you didn't want to keep that bottom end stuff you can buy a stroker kit for about 1800 that will take you to 462CID. Why not a solid cam?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
    22 deg total timing ?
    the DUI spec sheet says 22 @ 3400

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    Quote Originally Posted by gregb View Post
    Stock your CJ heads flow about 235CFM @ .5" of valve lift on the intake, a set of ported Edelbrocks will flow about 310CFM depending on who does the porting. Don't know what your budget is but call http://www.keithcraft.com/ if you want a set of ported heads. You can sell the CJ heads, they go from 500 to 1000 depending on condition and date codes, or you can have them ported, I think you'll find most of the gains in the bowl area, and you can go to a 2.15 inch intake valve from the stock 2.09. 2245 TRW were the forged replacements for the 428 PI engine back in the day, 10:1 or so would have been what they were supposed to be, but 9 to 9.5 is what they probably are in reality. If you didn't want to keep that bottom end stuff you can buy a stroker kit for about 1800 that will take you to 462CID. Why not a solid cam?
    Wow, I didn't know the stock CJ heads would go for that much. I have two sets in very good condition. The set I have been running were ported and polished, it would be interesting to have them flow tested, not sure how much that would be or if it would be worth it. I will contact keithcraft for some ideas on what aluminum heads would cost. I think I calculated 9.3something when I originally built the engine, not sure what the pistons were spec'd to give. In the past I have had concerns about running a solid cam because of the way rockers are on the 428 and adjustment, I'm over it and open to that option. I'll have to buy a different rocker set up. thanks for the advice.

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    Senior Member gregb's Avatar
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    Forgot to ask are you running headers or logs? Logs will really choke the potential of that engine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gregb View Post
    Forgot to ask are you running headers or logs? Logs will really choke the potential of that engine.
    Running through transom logs. I can't run headers due to hearing "issues". I used to run 4" OT's and my hearing really took a beating for it. I have to preserve what little hearing I have left.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleeper CP View Post
    I don't know shit about the prop and gear question, but ditch the stock heads and get a ported set of alumi Edlebrock, bump the compression to 10.5, ditch the 750 dp, put an 850 on it. Is the Dove a dual-plane or single plane ? Use a Comp or Crane cam preferably solid flat tappet.

    Check the bottom of the boat to see how straight it is change your prop and put a 150 HP Nos shot on it you'll get your 81 mph and then some.

    With current heads the timing should be approx 36* at > 3,600.

    Sleeper CP
    Big Inch Ford Lover
    How about a set of the new BT FE heads?
    Chris Straub
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  12. #10
    Senior Member gregb's Avatar
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    Logs will cost you some power, I know on my Mustang headers are worth about 50HP as opposed to the CJ manifolds. Way back in the day with manifolds and full exhaust I had a hard time getting the engine about 5200 or so, with a set of headers 6K was no problem. Another person you need to call is Mr cstraub from the above post, he can help you out with a cam and hopefully get you past some of the restrictions that the logs cause.

  13. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by cstraub View Post
    How about a set of the new BT FE heads?
    Does Art have them in stock ?


    Sleeper CP

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    Quote Originally Posted by tourneyboatsarejustafad View Post
    the DUI spec sheet says 22 @ 3400
    Then what's the vacuum advance total ? My 427 "stroker" motor ran 34-36* and the 428 SCJ in my brother's F-150 pre-runner ran 34* total.

    22* isn't even close to the total needed.

    Sleeper CP

  15. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by tourneyboatsarejustafad View Post
    the DUI spec sheet says 22 @ 3400
    if your initial was set at 12 degree that would be great -
    " my carbon footprint is gonna kick your green ass"


    Quote Originally Posted by 396_Ways_To_Spit View Post
    WOWO!!!!! THat has to be the most beautiful crank that Ive ever seen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by MAXIMUS View Post
    He has been allowing me to park my equipment in his backyard for a few years now...
    [/SIGPIC]

  16. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
    if your initial was set at 12 degree that would be great -



    Sleeper CP

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