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  1. #1
    I'm No Expert Shaun's Avatar
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    Default Lockout

    At what point do you lock out your dist and just run a fixed timming? What advantage does this give you vs letting the dist run a mech advance?

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    E-7 Sheepdog (ret) SmokinLowriderSS's Avatar
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    It gives you ansolute reliability that your final timing will be what you want it to be, for finding that last 1/10th of a HP for competition purposes.

    For the other 98.5% of us boaters, it's not worth the extra strain on starters and batteries.
    "As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
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    Senior Member H20MOFO's Avatar
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    This topic has been hashed out a few times, Imo a motor set at 30 + will not buck the starter as bad as one set at 16* adv. But what the hell do I know.lol Seriously I'm all ears on this one, I hope I'm not coming off like a know it all here. Good topic.
    Another Hot Boat refugee

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  6. #4
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    Default Cranking speeds vs actual compression

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokinLowriderSS View Post
    It gives you ansolute reliability that your final timing will be what you want it to be, for finding that last 1/10th of a HP for competition purposes.

    For the other 98.5% of us boaters, it's not worth the extra strain on starters and batteries.
    Quote Originally Posted by H20MOFO View Post
    This topic has been hashed out a few times, Imo a motor set at 30 + will not buck the starter as bad as one set at 16* adv. PSBut what the hell do I know.lol Seriously I'm all ears on this one, I hope I'm not coming off like a know it all here. Good topic.
    OK, I get a lot of flack based on 13.1:1 with 37-41* locked out. Let me just say that the amount of overlap in the camshaft plays a huge role in the cranking compression..... That said, we run 13.1:1, locked IN/OUT how ever you want to look at it, with out any starter problems what so ever. We run a bone stock GM style starter with a P/G nose bolted to the bellhousing. It has NEVER failed to start, ( oops, 92 at Puddingstone, it melted), but other than that, never failed to start. The key is the amount of overlap in the cam. At cranking speeds it relieves enough compression that the actual static compression isn't an issue..........The real test is the speed of the piston closing at RPMs.........Again, 37-41*, locked out, never a DNS, with a bone stock Autozone , or Cragen, or Pep boys, or one I threw together in the pits, rebuild.........I have seen hundreds of times those high dollar, high torque POS starters fail and wipe out the ring gear, and create DNSs in the boat that could have won the heat. Timing isn't the only factor to deal with when it comes to cranking a high compression engine...........Ray

    PS...Working with the Allerton PS boat in 06, PS52, we went through 2 or 3 high dollar, high torque POS starters, chewed up the ring gears, caused DNSs, and all because someone though he needed those little POS high torque starters. I wouldn't put one on my lawnmower..............
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    E-7 Sheepdog (ret) SmokinLowriderSS's Avatar
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    Soooooooooooooooooo............................. What's the "advantage" of it?
    "As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
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  8. #6
    Wet
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    What kind of compression is that lawnmower making?

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    As MP said above, cam overlap and cranking cylinder pressure has allot to do with it. Also, the stroke of the engine and the diameter of the flywheel have allot to do with it also. The longer the stroke, the more leverage the pressure has to slow the crank. The smaller the flywheel, the less leverage the starter has to turn against said pressure.
    My 600in big block has no problem starting with the timing locked (crank trigger). It is 11.3:1 cr with a Pep Boy's remanufactured starter/standard large flex-plate and never gives any trouble even with 87 octane fuel and the engine heat soaked (no timing retard).
    The advantage to having it locked is the improvment in timing control both throughout the RPM range and cylinder to cylinder, but I think we have beat that to death already.
    In a very mild (all but stock) build it's not really gonna matter that much as long as your not pressing the timing issue to the max. The more power you start making (or spraying/boosting) the more this will come be a factor.

  10. #8
    steelcomp was here
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    At what point do you lock out your dist and just run a fixed timming?
    At the same point you get rid of power valves.

    +1 on the above. 12.4:1 467, 34.5* locked. Never failed to start.
    One of the other advantages is a cleaner idle and nice crisp throttle response.
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  11. #9
    I'm No Expert Shaun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelcomp View Post
    At the same point you get rid of power valves.
    i already dont have PV's

    I'm really not so concerned with starting the motor, mainly trying to figure out at one point a motor should be locked out. As Steel,gn7,cstraub, and a few others know, i'm attempting to squeeze any and every bit of power out of this motor, just my goal, and dyno is gong to come up in the next few months so just thinking/learning about things. Also, this motor may see alittle spray depending on how the hull handles after the winter mods.

  12. #10
    steelcomp was here
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaun View Post
    i already dont have PV's

    I'm really not so concerned with starting the motor, mainly trying to figure out at one point a motor should be locked out. As Steel,gn7,cstraub, and a few others know, i'm attempting to squeeze any and every bit of power out of this motor, just my goal, and dyno is gong to come up in the next few months so just thinking/learning about things. Also, this motor may see alittle spray depending on how the hull handles after the winter mods.
    Depending on how much spray, you'll be looking at taking timing out, not putting it in.
    Are you running a crank trigger, ind if not, why?
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  13. #11
    I'm No Expert Shaun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelcomp View Post
    Depending on how much spray, you'll be looking at taking timing out, not putting it in.
    Are you running a crank trigger, ind if not, why?
    Amount of spray will be small if i run it at all. I'm not running a crank trigger, running a MSD pro-billet dist, 6al box, blaster2 coil. Only reason i'm not running PV's is because those 660's dont have them. You saying i should be running a crank trigger and locked out?

  14. #12
    steelcomp was here
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaun View Post
    Amount of spray will be small if i run it at all. I'm not running a crank trigger, running a MSD pro-billet dist, 6al box, blaster2 coil. Only reason i'm not running PV's is because those 660's dont have them. You saying i should be running a crank trigger and locked out?
    Well, I'm not telling you what you should do, but you'd be power ahead of you did. If you run a crank trigger, you should switch to a crank trigger dist, which has no advance. Your ignition performance would be way ahead of where it is now.
    JMO.
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    I'm bored. my .02 cents. Slightly over 13:1, timing locked at 38, stock Chevy starter, no problems with starting yet!

  16. #14
    gn7
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    if you are going to add spray, you could always lock out dizzy, set for max timing and add a retard box for the spray. The retard box can have a starting retard of about 10* if starting is ever a problem.



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