Out Of The Box Thread Design A New Engine
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Out Of The Box Thread Design A New Engine

  1. #1
    LP-25.com Infomaniac's Avatar
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    This might take off or it might suck so bad I move it to Gray Water storage lol.

    If you were not limited to what you can buy or make easily. What would you do to change an internal combustion reciprocating engine? I'm looking for big power from this new engine. Don't even consider how much it costs, fuel economy etc.

    When you think about it, All anyone does to get more power or performance from an engine is to use what is already there and tweak it continually making tiny ittle improvements. I would imagine why all boils down to $$ The $$ to actuallly do something new and amazing while at the same time keeping someone with many more $$ than you from killing it. So we design this new mega power engine (for our own amusement) and let the process of chipping away at the little tweaks bring it back down to doable. Right now we have a crude design and have refined into something acceptable. I propose the opposite. Design something amazing and refine the details down to plausable.

    Useing an existing technology created by Mr Otto how many years ago? Throwing away limits of what we have on hand. And probably using at least some fossil fuel lol but don't have to.

    What would you do?

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    Senior Member Marcsrollin's Avatar
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    How about a rotary engine on a WWAAAYYY bigger scale? Allows you to virtually run unlimited RPM's.
    No matter how good she looks , someone is tired of her shit!

  4. #3
    Resident Ford Nut Sleeper CP's Avatar
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    I like.

    We need to address the friction caused by the rings

    If I re-call correctly on my old Super Flow 900 dyno sheets there's a column that reads; FHP I was told that's the Hp lost to friction in the engine ( I never looked into it so I'm assuming that was correct info) but the "old" 565 made 855 HP and the FHP # was 277 at 6,600 and 299 at 6,800. Wow. If the friction in the engine could be cut by 35% I can pick up approx 100 hp.

    Edit: i would guess the computer calc's the number based on bore size,stroke and maybe a few other parameters ... does anyone know ?

    I'll get back to this later with a couple of idea's ....

    Sleeper CP
    Last edited by Sleeper CP; 12-13-2008 at 02:56 PM.

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  6. #4
    LP-25.com Infomaniac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcsrollin View Post
    How about a rotary engine on a WWAAAYYY bigger scale? Allows you to virtually run unlimited RPM's.
    RPM's can be good, but are really a crutch for not enough time in minutes and seconds to adequately fill a cylinder. More power strokes per minute is replacing cylinder filling.

    Dynacam engines have always amazed me as well as a star rotor? engine.

  7. #5
    Resident Ford Nut Sleeper CP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Infomaniac View Post
    RPM's can be good, but are really a crutch for not enough time in minutes and seconds to adequately fill a cylinder. More power strokes per minute is replacing cylinder filling.

    Dynacam engines have always amazed me as well as a star rotor? engine.

    I'm not sure that is an accurate statment Hummmmmm:

    100%+ VE ...... hummmmmm. There are quite a few that post here that have engines that have ve's above 100%.




    Sleeper CP

  8. #6
    steelcomp was here
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleeper CP View Post
    I'm not sure that is an accurate statment Hummmmmm:

    100%+ VE ...... hummmmmm. There are quite a few that post here that have engines that have ve's above 100%.




    Sleeper CP
    100% of the given design parameters, yes. 100% of what % of effeciency?
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    LP-25.com Infomaniac's Avatar
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    OK then RPM's a crutch for no blower

    I'm going to throw out my design ideas and let you guys debate current design theory

    I've typed this 4 times now cuz this new broadband card is killing me. Just moved the antennae to the top of the cabinet. Will see if that helps.

    i would like to have NO combustion during the compression stroke and longer combustion from just after TDc to 90* ATC. Be it feeding air and fuel the entire time, short bursts whatever. Getting the push on the piston there at the best mechanical advantage. Not working around current technology limitations.
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  10. #8
    Just another Wannabe Wannabe's Avatar
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    Warren Johnson's schetches for the DRCE 5 sound like a pretty cool deal. Then just bump up the idea with a larger than 4.900 bore spacing. Maybe 5.200 or so. Make a short stroke 600-650 cubic inch.
    Basically a shallow valve angle head with the camshaft in the very deck of the block to make the pushrods about an inch and a half long. Then make sure it is injected on alcohol. Maybe even a turbocharged application.

  11. #9
    Resident Ford Nut Sleeper CP's Avatar
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    Default 600" SOHC 3 valve

    Just make a 4.602 x 4.50 three valve engine, 2 intakes and 1 exhaust valve with a clover leaf combustion chamber and a dry sump and low-tension rings, EFI with a variable length intake track. or at 74.85 cu.in per cylinder make it a V-10 and have a 748" engine making 1.75 hp cu.in.

    That's my dream engine, of course with a Valve cover that reads FORD

    Sleeper CP
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    Last edited by Sleeper CP; 12-13-2008 at 03:01 PM.

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    If I have a clean sheet of paper and was designing an engine for a high performance boat or airplane the choice would be easy; just modernize one of these with the best electronics:



    http://www.iet.aau.dk/sec2/junkers.htm

    and a single power take-off shaft. Bruce Crower has the pistons,cylinder and heads in his shop to build a 1,200 hp 183 cu. in 8 piston super-charged engine that will be about the size of a small end-table about 24" x 18" it would rev about 10,000 rpm It would weigh less than 300 lbs.

    Sleeper CP
    Last edited by Sleeper CP; 12-13-2008 at 03:52 PM.

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  13. #11
    steelcomp was here
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleeper CP View Post
    If I have a clean sheet of paper and was designing an engine for a high performance boat or airplane the choice would be easy; just modernize one of these with the best electronics:



    http://www.iet.aau.dk/sec2/junkers.htm

    and a single power take-off shaft. Bruce Crower has the pistons,cylinder and heads in his shop to build a 1,200 hp 183 cu. in 8 piston super-charged engine that will be about the size of a small end-table about 24" x 18" it would rev about 10,000 rpm It would weigh less than 300 lbs.
    Sleeper CP
    That's a 3L engine, and would be a little behind the times in power output...F1 had that platform years ago. If you want to stay conventional internal combustion, DOHC 4v pentroof design with a proprietary piston dome is going to be the most effecient.
    Last edited by scott foxwell; 12-13-2008 at 04:27 PM.
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  14. #12
    Senior Member 4CE FED's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Infomaniac View Post
    OK then RPM's a crutch for no blower

    I'm going to throw out my design ideas and let you guys debate current design theory

    I've typed this 4 times now cuz this new broadband card is killing me. Just moved the antennae to the top of the cabinet. Will see if that helps.

    i would like to have NO combustion during the compression stroke and longer combustion from just after TDc to 90* ATC. Be it feeding air and fuel the entire time, short bursts whatever. Getting the push on the piston there at the best mechanical advantage. Not working around current technology limitations.
    Isn't the air fuel mix introduced ahead of TDC to allow sufficient time for the mixture to burn/expand, particularly at higher rpm's?

    Maybe the way to approach your idea is to break it down into smaller parts.

    For example:

    1. Type of engine- I vote 2 cycle
    2. Induction- I vote turbo direct injection
    3. Cylinder confiruration- Let's say opposed for smoothness, but 2 strokes are inherently smooth anyway, so would be determined by application.
    4. Fuel type- Maximum power...I guess nitromethane but out of question for longevity. So I'll say gasoline.
    5. No. of cylinders? 12
    6. Target operating rpm? 700-10,000
    7. Displacement? 500cc per cyl. to keep mass down equals 6.0 liter
    8. Block/ head material?
    9.etc.
    10. etc.

  15. #13
    BTC cardcarrying member sunkisst's Avatar
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    Default What If ?

    We all ride in computer conrolled cars with computer controlled fuel injection and ignition timing.The fuel injector pulsewidth is adjusted for power requirements as is the ignition timing and so on and so on...What if we were to lose the camshaft,lifters pushrods,rockers and springs?Make an electric solenoid that opens and closes our 4 valves per cylinder?These solenoids would also run by our onboard computer.We could
    then adjust our cam timing as we wanted,and so on,and so on.The amount of freed-up power would then come as a bonus!O.K. after re-reading the original post,this is just another tweek...not bad though?
    Last edited by sunkisst; 12-13-2008 at 05:11 PM.

  16. #14
    Senior Member 4CE FED's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunkisst View Post
    We all ride in computer conrolled cars with computer controlled fuel injection and ignition timing.The fuel injector pulsewidth is adjusted for power requirements as is the ignition timing and so on and so on...What if we were to lose the camshaft,lifters pushrods,rockers and springs?Make an electric solenoid that opens and closes our 4 valves per cylinder?These solenoids would also run by our onboard computer.We could
    then adjust our cam timing as we wanted,and so on,and so on.The amount of freed-up power would then come as a bonus!O.K. after re-reading the original post,this is just another tweek...not bad though?
    Variable cam timing and valve lift are already in use, albeit controlled by ECU and operated by hydraulics. I don't think there is a need to go beyond the max. advance/retard they are currently capable of.

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