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Total Seal Rings

  1. #1
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    Default Total Seal Rings

    I know rings have been through the mill on here.

    My question is, the difference between the top ring gapless and the second ring gapless? What's the pros and cons? Are they really any better than conventional rings?

    I've got a 468 NA BBC, single 1050 Dom, 12.5 comp, no n2o used for drag race only in a hydro.

    Tim

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    Quote Originally Posted by River Rat 005 View Post
    I know rings have been through the mill on here.

    My question is, the difference between the top ring gapless and the second ring gapless? What's the pros and cons? Are they really any better than conventional rings?

    I've got a 468 NA BBC, single 1050 Dom, 12.5 comp, no n2o used for drag race only in a hydro.

    Tim
    That would depend on if you are running a crank scraper and if so what will lube the bore? Lots of areas for lube but if compression retention is the main area of concern than consider the lube of the bore!! You may find that max H/P is great but the sacrafice may be the block!!!M

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    Quote Originally Posted by ol guy View Post
    That would depend on if you are running a crank scraper and if so what will lube the bore? Lots of areas for lube but if compression retention is the main area of concern than consider the lube of the bore!! You may find that max H/P is great but the sacrafice may be the block!!!M
    I read this 3 times and I still can't figure it out

    Sleeper CP

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    Distinguished Member David 519's Avatar
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    I'd suggest calling the guys at Total Seal. We decided to go with a gapless ring for our new blown alcohol motor. I've never run either a gapless ring or a blown motor. I talked to Keith at Total Seal 2 or 3 times deciding on what ring package to go with. Took some back and forth between Total Seal and my piston mfg to come up with the best combo for our engine.... We ended up going with a TNT gapless top, Napier second and standard tension oil ring.
    We decided to go gapless to minimize the alcohol contamination in the oil. For higher end blown deals, Total seal recommends a Dyke top, gapless second and standard oil ring for maximum sealing. We went the other way due to the Dyke rings reputation for being rough on cylinders.
    Last edited by David 519; 12-16-2008 at 07:58 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    ....... David 519 is 100% correct........

    Quote Originally Posted by fuelinmyveins82 View Post
    .....I think people forget that racing is supposed to fun. Losing shouldn't be discouraging it should motivate you work on your pile to make it faster.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by River Rat 005 View Post
    I know rings have been through the mill on here.

    My question is, the difference between the top ring gapless and the second ring gapless? What's the pros and cons? Are they really any better than conventional rings?

    I've got a 468 NA BBC, single 1050 Dom, 12.5 comp, no n2o used for drag race only in a hydro.

    Tim
    I have run zero-gap second rings for year's. I have no complaints with them. They still leak less than 2% if that means anything before Winter 4 leaked 0, 2 @ 1%, [email protected] 2% leak. This after lot's and lot's of Nos.

    Total Seal claims the top zero gap ring will make more power ... I would love to see an independent test on it. To be honest I think in a running engine a good set of conventional rings make just as much power. I think the bore preparation is more important than rather or not the rings are gap-less or not.

    The next major re-build on the 565 will be: gas ported pistons with med-light rings and a vacuum pump, there's more power to be gained there then in the zero -gap ring.

    The Total Seal Diamond ( non -zero gap) or C&A Hell Fire rings work just great, just pay attention to the final hone on the cylinder walls. (so I've been told) so there are conventional rings that work just as good if not better I've been told. I wonder what Cyclone used in his re-build

    Hope that helps. I have some great PM's from Warp Speed on rings, maybe he will give you his viewpoint on it.

    Sleeper CP

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    Quote Originally Posted by River Rat 005 View Post
    I know rings have been through the mill on here.

    My question is, the difference between the top ring gapless and the second ring gapless? What's the pros and cons? Are they really any better than conventional rings?

    I've got a 468 NA BBC, single 1050 Dom, 12.5 comp, no n2o used for drag race only in a hydro.

    Tim
    I have done a ton of dyno testing with gapless and conventional rings, save yourself the money and put in a conventional ring.Everthing I build I use total seal conventional rings.
    GROSE RACING INC.
    JOEY GROSE

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    JE Pro Seal rings, lateral gas ports and a HIGH QUALITY piston to provide a HIGH QUALITY ring land.
    The rest is left up to your machinist!

    Total Seal AP (conventional) rings are a nice ring, but there is better out there.

    IMO

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    Quote Originally Posted by ol guy View Post
    That would depend on if you are running a crank scraper and if so what will lube the bore? Lots of areas for lube but if compression retention is the main area of concern than consider the lube of the bore!! You may find that max H/P is great but the sacrafice may be the block!!!M

    I'm a little confused also.....but that's not hard to do sometimes!

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    Quote Originally Posted by GROSERACING View Post
    I have done a ton of dyno testing with gapless and conventional rings, save yourself the money and put in a conventional ring.Everthing I build I use total seal conventional rings.
    X2 Wouldn't pull a time from my pocket for zero gap 2nd, where does the gas that gets past the 1st ring go? Can't help but believe it could help unseat the top top ring. Thought this was the reasoning behind accumulator grooves, and running a larger 2nd ring gap. Can't comment on zero gap 1st, never ran them, just seems like a lot of money I could put somewhere else....like my wallet



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    Quote Originally Posted by ol guy View Post
    That would depend on if you are running a crank scraper and if so what will lube the bore? Lots of areas for lube but if compression retention is the main area of concern than consider the lube of the bore!! You may find that max H/P is great but the sacrafice may be the block!!!M
    Quote Originally Posted by Sleeper CP View Post
    I read this 3 times and I still can't figure it out

    Sleeper CP
    Go back and read 3 more times and it will make even less sense



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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    X2 Can't comment on zero gap 1st, never ran them, just seems like a lot of money I could put somewhere else....like my wallet
    Or spare pistons!!!!

    Sorry GN....couldn't resist!!

    I'm sure that remark will bite me in the ass sometime this summer!!

  14. #12
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    Now that is by far the best stab yet, That is just f*@cking funny! LMAO



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    I think the original idea for zero gap rings were for guys running aluminum blocks, and trying to keep teh rings seated with all the distortion going on in the cylinders. Guys running iron blocks thought it might work for them as well.
    My thoughts on running a ZG second ring are as Ray says...trends today seem to be going with a larger secod ring gap so if one was to run one, it might make sense to run it in the top instead of the secong. Personally I don't believe they're of any benefit on an iron block. Round, properly finshed cylinders and quality pistons go a long way in helping the rings do their job.
    JMO
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp Speed View Post
    Or spare pistons!!!!

    Sorry GN....couldn't resist!!

    I'm sure that remark will bite me in the ass sometime this summer!!
    If God is your co-pilot, change seats!
    Acts 2:38, the perfect answer to the perfect question.

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