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Intake tech..... Did you ever wonder how they ....

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    Resident Ford Nut Sleeper CP's Avatar
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    Default Intake tech..... Did you ever wonder how they ....

    determine the runner length of a custom intake manifold ?

    Something I read many year's ago and thought it was interesting. This past week one of the questions about intake manifolds or carbs made me think about it so I thought I'd post it up for you tech guys:






    Maybe it will give some of you guys a project for this Winter. Good luck.

    Sleeper CP
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleeper CP View Post
    determine the runner length of a custom intake manifold ?

    Something I read many year's ago and thought it was interesting. This past week one of the questions about intake manifolds or carbs made me think about it so I thought I'd post it up for you tech guys:






    Maybe it will give some of you guys a project for this Winter. Good luck.

    Sleeper CP
    Big Inch Ford Lover
    Ineresting stuff CP!!

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    steelcomp was here
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    Exactly what I was referring to with my comment on the other thread about "intake harmonics".
    Pipemax would be an interesting comparison. Most intakes I hear referring to the tuned harmonics refer to the third harmonic as the best one to tune to. Unequal length runner intakes like a single plane, single four intake use the third and fourth harmonic for the differnet length runners (third for the longer, fourth for the shorter)
    Last edited by scott foxwell; 01-04-2009 at 09:03 PM.
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    Scott,

    After reading some of that tech stuff it explains why the old long runner TFS tunnel ram nicked name " the Holmes" manifold works better than the new style TFS like I have sitting on the shelf. The long runner works better on the second harmonic for a stroker engine in the 7,500 +/- rpm range. The newer short runner intake needs lots of cubes and lots or rpms.

    The math is damn interesting about the valve lift numbers and other info. It would be interesting to apply some of that to a drag engine reving to 7,200-7,400 or even beyond. My friend Geoff gave me that info years ago. He wants to build an all out engine where he flows the entire intake and exhaust track ( carb to header) then design the tunnel ram for it in combination with the cam to work in that narrow rpm range for peak performance.

    Lastly, I think it was Mark who a few weeks ago stated that you couldn't achieve a VE in excess of 100% with a n/a engine. It would seem Super Flow would disagree with him.

    Sleeper CP
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    Last edited by Sleeper CP; 01-05-2009 at 09:50 AM.

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    steelcomp was here
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    I happen to have one of ol' Jonny' intakes right here...it's even bla...um...never mind....

    The only thing I question about the long runner TR is the plenum design and how up to date that is.
    If God is your co-pilot, change seats!
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelcomp View Post
    I happen to have one of ol' Jonny' intakes right here...it's even bla...um...never mind....

    The only thing I question about the long runner TR is the plenum design and how up to date that is.
    Take a picture of that thing and post it and what is the runner length on it. Where did you get it and how long have you had it ?

    The new style:



    Sleeper CP
    Last edited by Sleeper CP; 01-05-2009 at 10:48 AM.

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    steelcomp was here
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    These are the only pics I have of the intake right now. I'll get a tape out and measure the port/runner length later. My guess is these intakes are tuned to the third harmonic, unless you know for a fact that they're @ the second. I read that the TFS single four has the outer runners (long ones) to the third, and the inners (short runners) to the fourth.
    I also have a 1" plenum spacer for the intake instead of the atller 2" like you see. This is (was) the 496 in my CP Tunnel





    Last edited by scott foxwell; 01-05-2009 at 11:22 AM.
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    Scott I measured the runners on my TR pictured above, the runners are 5.5" long and the port is approx 5.25" long for a total of 10.75".

    The formula states " For engines with a plenum chamber type intake, the length is from the valve to the plenum chamber."

    So my new style TR would best be suited for an engine at 9,000 rpm on the 3rd harmonic (10.78") or an engine at 6,800 on the 4th harmonic (10.88")
    It could only achieve optimum level of the 2nd harmonic at 12,250 rpms

    Not the best of designs, dumb-asses at TFS. If you're working with a clean sheet, do it right.

    Sleeper CP

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    Quote Originally Posted by steelcomp View Post
    I happen to have one of ol' Jonny' intakes right here...it's even bla...um...never mind....:p

    The only thing I question about the long runner TR is the plenum design and how up to date that is.




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    Packaging makes it nearly impossible to get the correct lengths you are looking for when dealing with say sub 7k and normal size engines, unless going EFI.

    CP, I have a program that can show you what lengths you need for 1st thru 4th harmonic. Just send me a PM with all engine info including where you want max horsepower.

    It also will tell you what to strive for with a camshaft, amongst other things. But, I won't go there.

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    cfm
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    BTW: Measuring the runner tract length needs to be accurate. Measure along the centerline of top of the runner and then the centerline of the bottom and divide by 2. A standard metal tape measurer will not get you the correct dimensions.

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    steelcomp was here
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    It would seem the third harmonic tuning of that manifold would be right in line with it's intended use.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sleeper CP View Post
    Scott I measured the runners on my TR pictured above, the runners are 5.5" long and the port is approx 5.25" long for a total of 10.75".

    The formula states " For engines with a plenum chamber type intake, the length is from the valve to the plenum chamber."

    So my new style TR would best be suited for an engine at 9,000 rpm on the 3rd harmonic (10.78") or an engine at 6,800 on the 4th harmonic (10.88")
    It could only achieve optimum level of the 2nd harmonic at 12,250 rpms

    Not the best of designs, dumb-asses at TFS. If you're working with a clean sheet, do it right.

    Sleeper CP
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    Acts 2:38, the perfect answer to the perfect question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steelcomp View Post
    It would seem the third harmonic tuning of that manifold would be right in line with it's intended use.
    When you build a 9,000 rpm 540-604"er I want to see it run on the dyno. Give me a call so I can clear my schedule when that day comes.

    Sleeper CP
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    Going fast is only half the fun ... what you make go
    fast is the other half.
    " A Government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take away everything you have"

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    steelcomp was here
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    SleeperCP:
    Not the best of designs, dumb-asses at TFS. If you're working with a clean sheet, do it right.
    I hear TFS is looking for a new designer....

    I was thinking more on the 500" Pro Stock platform, but still...
    If God is your co-pilot, change seats!
    Acts 2:38, the perfect answer to the perfect question.

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