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The Hydrogen Thread

  1. #1
    LP-25.com Infomaniac's Avatar
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    Default The Hydrogen Thread

    So to keep the e-85 thread from being completely hijaacked...

    I fascinated with Breaking water into a very potent fuel..

    The doubters say the laws of thermodynamics state you use more energy to produce the hydrogen that you get out of it. You might as well use the electricity directly instead of use it to make hydrogen.

    My arguement to that would yea but.... How much energy did it take to produce a gallon of gasoline? A whole lot more than you get from it. The oil has to b found, drilled, pumped transported to a refinery, refined and distributed.

    It's my HO that gasoline is produced on such a massive scale that it is somewhat affordable but in no way energy effecient to produce. And I would bet it is way more ineffecient to produce than hydrogen

    I think the on demand version of HHO or Brown's gas is the ticket. So what if it takes some electricity to make it. On demand you could'nt have used that small amount of electricity for anything else.

    You are still using some fossil fuel, you are still using the existing technology of the automobile. No large scale production and distribution. Nothing has to be reinvented just a whole lot less gasoline consumed and a whole lot less pollution emitted.

    OK I'm done I feel much better now.

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    Senior Member Jim W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Infomaniac View Post
    So to keep the e-85 thread from being completely hijaacked...



    OK I'm done I feel much better now.


    Good.....now fire up your fire pit and cook something!!!

    Jim
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    I'm No Expert Shaun's Avatar
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    its my understanding that converting a modern engine to run on hydrogen isnt all that difficult or expensive. if this is the case it makes more sense rather than forcing everybody to go electric. not to mention having to wait for the car to charge.

    Sounds like the safe storage of the hydrogen is the real problem. Was watching somthing on tv a month back and a guy found a way make hydrogen by adding a certiaan element to water, the idea was to have small balls of these and to introduce/make the hydrogen as needed. anybody else see this?

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    I'm with Infomaniac. I did some search and now I'm going to by a beater car to experiment with. What I have found is to make hydrogen that takes the power of a 12v battery. The car won't run entirely on hydrogen, but suppliment the gas to get better milage and less polution. We'll see.

    Tim

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    I'm No Expert Shaun's Avatar
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    Making hydrogen is easy, it's just making enough of it and being efficient.

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    E-7 Sheepdog (ret) SmokinLowriderSS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaun View Post
    its my understanding that converting a modern engine to run on hydrogen isnt all that difficult or expensive. if this is the case it makes more sense rather than forcing everybody to go electric. not to mention having to wait for the car to charge.

    Sounds like the safe storage of the hydrogen is the real problem. Was watching somthing on tv a month back and a guy found a way make hydrogen by adding a certiaan element to water, the idea was to have small balls of these and to introduce/make the hydrogen as needed. anybody else see this?
    This is what I mainly keep bringing up.

    Storage and transfer of a gas under 5,000 to 10,000 PSI.
    Add in heavy, bulky storage tanks and limited range due to limited storage volume.

    Storage and transfer of a CRYOGENIC LIQUID (-400+*F).
    Smaller, lighter, storage, far more volume for good range, tanks self-empty if left sit unused.

    Add in Hydrogen Embrittlement to the metal parts contacting it (takes time, but weakens the metals). This will cause mandatory tank and all fuel lines replacement every so often, before failure (like time-change items on aircraft are).
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    LP-25.com Infomaniac's Avatar
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    Dude lol

    Do you work for an oil company or something lol This is not a personal attack.

    There is absolutely no need for a hydrogen manufacturing plant. hydrogen distribution system and storage in the vehicle.

    You can make what is needed and use it right in the vehicle. You can't compare gasoline and hydrogen. You CAN make hydrogen on the spot and use it immediately.


    Quote Originally Posted by SmokinLowriderSS View Post
    This is what I mainly keep bringing up.

    Storage and transfer of a gas under 5,000 to 10,000 PSI.
    Add in heavy, bulky storage tanks and limited range due to limited storage volume.

    Storage and transfer of a CRYOGENIC LIQUID (-400+*F).
    Smaller, lighter, storage, far more volume for good range, tanks self-empty if left sit unused.

    Add in Hydrogen Embrittlement to the metal parts contacting it (takes time, but weakens the metals). This will cause mandatory tank and all fuel lines replacement every so often, before failure (like time-change items on aircraft are).

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    Senior Member miketeast's Avatar
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    Default before you get too excited about hydrogen

    read this....explains some dificulties as well as solutions to burning hydrogen.


    http://www1.eere.energy.gov/hydrogen...fs/fcm03r0.pdf

    i find it very informantive and cant find any arguments for dispute.

    I also find it very basic. Several common solutions to the problems discussed are not addressed.

    using it as a complimentary fuel is not discussed.

    and you still got to make it.

    Dont disregard the H1 hydrogen vs the H2, they did not distinguish between them.
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    Highaboosta Unchained's Avatar
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    Ron,
    You had a thread a few years ago where you did make hydrogen.
    I don't remember if it was here or on hotboat.

    Why don't you post up that stuff again and how you did it for all us amateur pyro's ?

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    northern member Canuc's Avatar
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    Lightbulb no storage

    Quote Originally Posted by Infomaniac View Post

    I think the on demand version of HHO or Brown's gas is the ticket. So what if it takes some electricity to make it. On demand you could'nt have used that small amount of electricity for anything else.
    I've heard from a retired guy that has built a underhood HHO generator that reduced the fuel to run his 6.5 L turbo diesel in half . 3 stage system that is fused at 30 amps. 13.8V x 30 = 414 watts to generate half the fuel to power his truck ! the trick is getting efficient electrolysis to take place . I guess the combustion of the diesel (or gasoline) is improved with the addition of the HHO not to mention the reduction of emissions . hindsight is 20/20 and no doubt the government is worried about losing fuel taxes and oil companies some of their billions in profit but if these things are safe they should of been on vehicles years ago , maybe then the big three wouldn't be lookin for bail-outs River Rat 005 been tryin to sort through the BS and the scams to build one of these i know just about enough now to blow myself up so i'm goin to try one on a beater also
    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 If your ran a cammer your odds of finishing WERE ZERO.

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    You cannot make enough onboard to do stink. Try the supplimental and see how it goes its not as easy as it sounds to make enough onboard to make a true difference in your mileage. I don't care what they say its still a long way from being commercially viable. Storage and distribution is a huge problem not to mention what will happen if someone gets t-boned at 55mph. I don't have anything against it but its alot further down the road than we are being led to believe.

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    LP-25.com Infomaniac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unchained View Post
    Ron,
    You had a thread a few years ago where you did make hydrogen.
    I don't remember if it was here or on hotboat.

    Why don't you post up that stuff again and how you did it for all us amateur pyro's ?
    Was that here? Should have saved that one also from Hot boat.

    Yep did some research a while back and made an electrolizer. Lit it and it went bang. It's just too easy. Actually persueing something better I have not made the time to do.

    Actually there are a lot of folks that explain how to make it and use it in you're vehicle. They do it intentionally in a public forum as it cannot be patented if discussed in public first.

    A simple kit to install on a vehicle costs less than $400.00 It's like buying a Phototron. You buy it, se how simple it is and make a bigger one yourself lol

    Educating everyone is the first step. Putting a simple device that suppliments you're existing vehicle is the next step. Making a hydrogen powered fuel cell that powers a car off of the electricity is way out there and requires inventing brand new everything.

    I'll share this link. It is only 1 but they share everything you need to know and will sell everything you need if you cant DIY

    http://www.brownsgas.com/hho_gas.html

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    LP-25.com Infomaniac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldelmn8tr View Post
    You cannot make enough onboard to do stink. Try the supplimental and see how it goes its not as easy as it sounds to make enough onboard to make a true difference in your mileage. I don't care what they say its still a long way from being commercially viable. Storage and distribution is a huge problem not to mention what will happen if someone gets t-boned at 55mph. I don't have anything against it but its alot further down the road than we are being led to believe.
    You have tried it? Or know someone that has?

  16. #14
    Senior Member H20MOFO's Avatar
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    Great thread. Who was that guy that drove his dune buggy coast to coast with a hydrogen powered dune buggy 20 or so years ago?? If no one can remember I'll call my nephew in the morning.
    Another Hot Boat refugee

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