Very Mild Build.
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 14 of 16

Thread:
Very Mild Build.

  1. #1
    I'm No Expert Shaun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    San Clemente, Ca
    Posts
    3,139

    Default Very Mild Build.

    So my buddy picked up a small jet boat and a 2 bolt 454 block that looks to be std bore and has 049 heads. It's his first boat, he doesnt want to go nuts but wants somthing that will perform decient, have decient parts, and not kill the bank. I told him i would start a post and get your feed back.

    To start the impeller is a stock aluminum berk A, boats a heavy 18ft tahiti.

    Pistons is what he needs to figure out so he can drop this thing off at the machinest. These heads i guess have a large CC, he was wanting to get the compression up around 10:1 (like mine). Forged is expensive, he was looking at the KB hyper's. How will these do for a mild build in a marine app thats probably going to turn in the low 5000 rpm range?

    Cam, i beleive he wants to go roller, not sure hydrolic or solid. Lifters where expensive when i got mine, are there a decient set of roller lifters that are not too expensive?

    Then there's the cam, any advice there?

    Basically looking to put together a nice sized parts list here of a budget very mild 454 build.

    ~Shaun

  2. Remove Advertisements
    PerformanceBoats.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    Senior Member NiceGuyEddie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Anaheim Hills
    Posts
    5,838

    Default

    I guess desired goal and exact budget are need to help figure this out.

  4. #3
    E-7 Sheepdog (ret) SmokinLowriderSS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Newton Ks.
    Posts
    6,834

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaun View Post
    So my buddy picked up a small jet boat and a 2 bolt 454 block that looks to be std bore and has 049 heads. It's his first boat, he doesnt want to go nuts but wants somthing that will perform decient, have decient parts, and not kill the bank. I told him i would start a post and get your feed back..
    My build was $1800, parts included, and I couldn't afford pistons, (cam/intake only) but, only machine work I had done was cylinder hone (bore un-needed) and cam bearing instalation, anything more wil, of course add $$$$.
    My build put out about 400HP with brick-solid reliability, till I ported the 049's and gained HP, lost nothing, incl. reliability.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaun View Post
    To start the impeller is a stock aluminum berk A, boats a heavy 18ft tahiti.
    Once he goes any stouter than this build, consider changing that impeller, mine started to stress crack. It'll be best is he has no trouble with cavitation. Cavitation on launches and such will only kill it faster.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaun View Post
    Pistons is what he needs to figure out so he can drop this thing off at the machinest. These heads i guess have a large CC, he was wanting to get the compression up around 10:1 (like mine). Forged is expensive, he was looking at the KB hyper's. How will these do for a mild build in a marine app thats probably going to turn in the low 5000 rpm range?
    Speed-Pro Powerforged are only about $50 each, I'd put these in.
    Compression dome for a stock bore 454, 122cc head, .039" gasket (typical Fel-Pro Blue Perma-Torques:
    Assuming the block is not decked to piston flush, but to a .020" down in, the needed dome is in the 33cc ballpark.
    0-deck the block, 27cc's is now the ballpark.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaun View Post
    Cam, i beleive he wants to go roller, not sure hydrolic or solid. Lifters where expensive when i got mine, are there a decient set of roller lifters that are not too expensive?
    Try to buy rollers with pressure-fed oiling to the roller axle, going to cost more, and live a HUGE ammount longer.
    Isky makes some, I THINK Crane does (trying to remember from when I looked it up a year ago), and have heard from folks here that other brands exist as well, I don't know.
    If your buddy is on a budget, hyd. rollers will bust it likely.
    IMO a rev kit also makes them live longer, and is not expensive.
    He's likely to have to go roller rocker, my stock rockers were short-slots, no-way-worky. Budget made me replace them with long-slots, lost a couple in break-in, then good. Nitrous threw me to 5,400RPM, and started cooking them.
    ARP rocker studs and a set of roller rockers, save him the fits and fights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaun View Post
    Then there's the cam, any advice there?
    Got my cam from HTP, as a custom grind of Isky's .565" lift, 280* cam (aggressive ramp speeds). Moderate lope, great throttle response, and my Taylor SS is no potato-chip.
    Straub on here is also a great guy here if you decide to do a complete custom grind, knows his grinding.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaun View Post
    Basically looking to put together a nice sized parts list here of a budget very mild 454 build.~Shaun
    I put in Clevite 77 bearings, Sealed Power double-molly rings.
    He likely has 5/16" pencil-pushrods too, Speed-pro 3/8"ers, don't even try my cam or anything steeper with the pencils.

    A MUST DO (IMO)!
    Those rods are fine, the 3/8" knurled shank bolts are junk, especially used (GM even says "replace at every overhaul"), ARP 3/8" bolts, I had the wave-locs installed, re-sized, everything is solid.

    Below is my running engine, making about 400HP on 8:1 compression, before I had the heads ported, now about 500 after the porting. (650 on nitrous)
    When I overhaul it again, I'll be able to upgrade pistons, and compression.

    Shortblock:
    GM Mk-IV block, Cast Iron # 361959 Hi-Perf Passenger 2-bolt main bearings cast 15Jan 1977
    Crankshaft: GM Factory cast iron
    ARP Main Bearing Cap Studs, 2-bolt set for windage tray. P/N 235-5502.
    Factory stock Windage Tray
    Connecting rods: GM forged steel with 3/8" ARP Wave-lock 8740 Bolts, P/N 135-6402. pressed-in wrist pins.
    Pistons: Cast Aluminum flat-top pistons (original from 1977/
    Piston Rings: Sealed Power double Molly, Stock size
    Timing Chain: Comp Cams Billet 9-slot double-roller timing chain set with torrimngton bearing attatched. P/N 7110
    Camshaft: Iskendarian Cams #280H (custom ramp grind per Duane, Hi-Tech Performance) .565" lift, 280* Dur.
    Lifters: Iskendarian Superlifters flat tappet hydraulic P/N 202-HY
    Oil pump, stock GM, circa 1978, mfd. by Melling.
    Oil pressure, 58PSI cold, 23PSI hot idle, 61PSI @ 5,400RPM.WFO
    Bearings:
    Mains & Rods: Clevite 77 Bearings
    Camshaft: Sealed Power Bearings
    Exhaust rotators removed, rotator eliminators installed.
    Iskendarian Springs to match Cam (in kit). P/N 8005-A
    Comp Cams valve seals. P/N 510-16
    Pushrods: 3/8" Speed-Pro #RP-5002RK
    Pushrod Guides: 3/8" Comp Cams P/N 8406-8
    Rockers: Comp Cams Hy-Tech Stainless Steel roller rockers., P/N 1123-16
    Rocker Lock Nuts: Comp Cams matching lock-nuts. P/N 4600-16
    ARP rocker studs (1.900" long). P/N 200-7202.
    Edelbrock Performer RPM Air Gap 2.0 manifold.
    700cfm Holley 4150.

    Best of luck to ya and your buddy Shaun
    Niow, for everyone elses ideas.
    Last edited by SmokinLowriderSS; 01-30-2009 at 02:47 PM. Reason: quote syntax
    "As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
    H.L. Mencken

    OBAMA: Some people deserve this.
    The rest of us are being dragged along kicking and screaming.

  5. Remove Advertisements
    PerformanceBoats.com
    Advertisements
     

  6. #4
    Senior Member hotbo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    lake Ouachita AR
    Posts
    4,677

    Default

    hey shaun the kb hyps are good pistons.i have run them for years in my jet with no problems and use alot of nos on them.ring gap is the major downfallopen them up then no problem

    the comp cams hyd roller marine cams are good ones.the comp cams hyd rollers are good ones as well.buy a complete kit pretty resonable.other than that good luck and i hope he likes it.travis

  7. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Tri-Cities, TN
    Posts
    1,681

    Default

    I would get it tore apart and lets see if they're any suprises in the engine then ge budget and Power goals and we can modify from there.
    Chris Straub
    Straub Technologies

    3HP is an A$$ Whooping!!! JW

  8. #6
    I'm No Expert Shaun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    San Clemente, Ca
    Posts
    3,139

    Default

    SmokinLowriderSS, Thanks for all the info. Chris did my cam and i couldnt be happyier with it! If my buddy was building something more aggressive i he'd definitly go with a cam from chris.

    Chris, motors torn down to the block, bore looks to be stock with some minor wear, as far as i can see the block looks fine. He's going to have it all checked out by the machinest. Chris, you have a buget cam you sell? or valve train kit?

  9. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Tri-Cities, TN
    Posts
    1,681

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaun View Post
    SmokinLowriderSS, Thanks for all the info. Chris did my cam and i couldnt be happyier with it! If my buddy was building something more aggressive i he'd definitly go with a cam from chris.

    Chris, motors torn down to the block, bore looks to be stock with some minor wear, as far as i can see the block looks fine. He's going to have it all checked out by the machinest. Chris, you have a buget cam you sell? or valve train kit?
    CAll or PM me and I work you up a "kit".
    Chris Straub
    Straub Technologies

    3HP is an A$$ Whooping!!! JW

  10. #8
    gn7
    gn7 is offline
    Senior Member gn7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    25,975

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokinLowriderSS View Post





    A MUST DO (IMO)!
    Those rods are fine, the 3/8" knurled shank bolts are junk, especially used

    Connecting rods: GM forged steel with 3/8" ARP Wave-lock 8740 Bolts, P/N 135-6402. pressed-in wrist pins.
    Pistons: Cast Aluminum flat-top pistons (original from 1977/



    700cfm Holley 4150.
    You can buy 4340 "I" beams with ARP 7/16 caps screws cheaper than you can do that.
    I can't say I would EVER recommend cast pistons in a boat. Why would you recommend he goes thru the hassle of rebuilding his rods with 3/8 ARP bolts and then put in cast pistons. the stock rod with a stock 3/8 bolt is stronger than almost any cast piston. You can't feed a wheezing small block with a 700 Holley



    100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3

  11. #9
    Boat Nut sleekcrafter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    South Elgin, Il.
    Posts
    5,131

    Default

    KB Hypertechic pistons = bad news in jet boats. Have seen first hand the results of the piston, having been pulled apart, and wrist pin thrown thru the pan.

  12. #10
    E-7 Sheepdog (ret) SmokinLowriderSS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Newton Ks.
    Posts
    6,834

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    You can buy 4340 "I" beams with ARP 7/16 caps screws cheaper than you can do that.
    I can't say I would EVER recommend cast pistons in a boat. Why would you recommend he goes thru the hassle of rebuilding his rods with 3/8 ARP bolts and then put in cast pistons. the stock rod with a stock 3/8 bolt is stronger than almost any cast piston. You can't feed a wheezing small block with a 700 Holley
    So those rods are available for under $170, which is what I spent on my rods, parts and labor, good, he should buy those them.

    I did not advise him to put cast pistons in it, read higher up in my post, near the top.

    I PUT them in mine, becasue, due to a lack of $400, I was forced to LEAVE THEM in mine.
    I recomended a good budget forging, Speed-Pro Powerforged specifically.
    "As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
    H.L. Mencken

    OBAMA: Some people deserve this.
    The rest of us are being dragged along kicking and screaming.

  13. #11
    Senior Member hotbo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    lake Ouachita AR
    Posts
    4,677

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sleekcrafter View Post
    KB Hypertechic pistons = bad news in jet boats. Have seen first hand the results of the piston, having been pulled apart, and wrist pin thrown thru the pan.
    yeah and i bet it had something to do with ring end gap and timingi guess im the luckiest sob around using them 5 years alot of juice and 34 degrees timing, i must have read the directionsoh well the kb forged arent much higher these days and they are forged

  14. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    LaPorte Indiana
    Posts
    239

    Default

    My first BBC build was a 330 HP Merc that I added the following components to. Ported 049's, Holley matched Strip Dominator, Rewarder Headers, MSD Rev Limitor, Holley 750 and an Erson JB100 (Jet boat grind) that was put on a 112 LSA. I think the specs on that cam were 228/235 @ .050" with .540" lift hydraulic flat tappet. I bought all of the parts cheap and the boat gained 13 MPH. I buzzed it 5500 RPM and had no issues with the stock cast pistons, but I never held it at WOT for real long extended periods of time and I kept the timing pretty conservative. It was a stump puller out of the hole and through the mid range! Honestly that was one of the most rewarding projects I have done.

  15. #13
    Boat Nut sleekcrafter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    South Elgin, Il.
    Posts
    5,131

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hotbo View Post
    yeah and i bet it had something to do with ring end gap and timingi guess im the luckiest sob around using them 5 years alot of juice and 34 degrees timing, i must have read the directionsoh well the kb forged arent much higher these days and they are forged
    It was built by a long time engine builder, he must have known a thing or two, his son is now a builder for a Nascar team. The engine was dyno tuned for pump gas, and ran like hell for a Ford. The disaster happened shortly after fueling on the water, so yes it was maybe a timing issue. This was not the only time I've heard of this happening, atleast a half dozen others here on the boards have had the same results, with the hyper KB's.

  16. #14
    Senior Member MACHINEHEAD1's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    473

    Default

    Im liking Wette Vettes combo for what your buddy is doing. All performance builds in boats should have forged pistons. Period. I remember 25yrs ago one of the first questions was "does it have forged pistons in it". Even some factory stuff had forged pistons at 400HP. Aftermarket cast stuff has come a long way, but we are all making 25-75 more HP than we used to with similar combos. Now start adding better heads and induction sys. Taking it to the dyno, and wow, a 550 HP cast piston bomb. Sealed Power hyps. with rings $250- KB no rings $290- Sealed Power Forged $430 no rings. Complete Sealed Power kit with forged piston/rings and all gaskets,plugs,pump and bearings ECT.$630 All current Summit Pricing and all are about 9to1 comp. The forged pistons come with floating pins and clips or can be pressed. Your choice.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Quick Reply Quick Reply

Register Now

Please enter the name by which you would like to log-in and be known on this site.

Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in

Tags for this Thread

Digg This Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
 

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95