Blown Injected Q's
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Blown Injected Q's

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    B.A.M aka "Black Azz Mike 396_Ways_To_Spit's Avatar
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    Default Blown Injected Q's

    Im thinking about going injected(hat style). I love the way these things look. What are the pro's and con's? What style fuel pump do you have to run? Can you run the clay smith pump?
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    B.A.M aka "Black Azz Mike 396_Ways_To_Spit's Avatar
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    Oh and it would be blown gas....
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    Quote Originally Posted by cave View Post
    They bout shit themselves when yelled in Messican, "No brakes no brakes."
    I showed them all the sticker on the side that reads "Driver Ricky Bobby" They just looked at me and nodded yes yes
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    Some peeps just build it 1 part, 1 week, 1 paycheck at a time

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    Senior Member 500BBC's Avatar
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    The plumbing for a hat on any cruising deal is the biggest problem in set up.

    You need a T or Bullet tank fed by a standard block or electric pump and the mechanical pump for the hat. I set mine up with a bock pump to fill my bullet tank, the Enderle pump crank driven and a tiny electric pump that feeds a solenoid for a single start nozzle.

    You will need bypass lines from your bullet or T tank to dump excess fuel back to your side tanks also.

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    Highaboosta Unchained's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 396_Ways_To_Spit View Post
    Im thinking about going injected(hat style). I love the way these things look. What are the pro's and con's? What style fuel pump do you have to run? Can you run the clay smith pump?
    Looking cool is the biggest plus about the Enderle's.
    How they run on gas on a lake boat ........from what I've seen, is nearly unusable. Bring along plenty of rope because you're going to be towed a lot.

    That's why most guys run them on alcohol. The lack of tunability is not as noticable with a fuel that requires that much volume.
    Good injection system for a trailer queen boat though.

    Consider the tuning challenges.
    To produce a proper 14.5:1 fuel mixture at idle with EFI on gas takes aproximately a .002 sec injector pulse on the intake stroke which is every other revolution. That's a fraction of a drop.

    With a mechanical system, When all the injectors are flowing fuel 100% of the time, how could you ever get the injected fuel quantity down to match that ? It's impossible. They end up with a sloppy rich mixture that has actually subtracted HP rather than added it. I've seen it many, many, times.

    Let the bashing begin !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Twin Turbo 1800 HP V-Drive lake boat

    http://s621.photobucket.com/albums/t...t=MAH05771.mp4

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    B.A.M aka "Black Azz Mike 396_Ways_To_Spit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unchained View Post
    Looking cool is the biggest plus about the Enderle's.
    How they run on gas on a lake boat ........from what I've seen, is nearly unusable. Bring along plenty of rope because you're going to be towed a lot.

    That's why most guys run them on alcohol. The lack of tunability is not as noticable with a fuel that requires that much volume.
    Good injection system for a trailer queen boat though.

    Consider the tuning challenges.
    To produce a proper 14.5:1 fuel mixture at idle with EFI on gas takes aproximately a .002 sec injector pulse on the intake stroke which is every other revolution. That's a fraction of a drop.

    With a mechanical system, When all the injectors are flowing fuel 100% of the time, how could you ever get the injected fuel quantity down to match that ? It's impossible. They end up with a sloppy rich mixture that has actually subtracted HP rather than added it. I've seen it many, many, times.

    Let the bashing begin !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Mark, my engine builder stated the same thing but in a simple sentance I am just exploring my options. I LOVE the way the hat looks but I run my boat way too much for one
    G H E T T O F O E L I F E
    Quote Originally Posted by cave View Post
    They bout shit themselves when yelled in Messican, "No brakes no brakes."
    I showed them all the sticker on the side that reads "Driver Ricky Bobby" They just looked at me and nodded yes yes
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    Some peeps just build it 1 part, 1 week, 1 paycheck at a time

  8. #6
    Senior Member 500BBC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unchained View Post
    Looking cool is the biggest plus about the Enderle's.
    How they run on gas on a lake boat ........from what I've seen, is nearly unusable. Bring along plenty of rope because you're going to be towed a lot.

    That's why most guys run them on alcohol. The lack of tunability is not as noticable with a fuel that requires that much volume.
    Good injection system for a trailer queen boat though.

    Consider the tuning challenges.
    To produce a proper 14.5:1 fuel mixture at idle with EFI on gas takes aproximately a .002 sec injector pulse on the intake stroke which is every other revolution. That's a fraction of a drop.

    With a mechanical system, When all the injectors are flowing fuel 100% of the time, how could you ever get the injected fuel quantity down to match that ? It's impossible. They end up with a sloppy rich mixture that has actually subtracted HP rather than added it. I've seen it many, many, times.

    Let the bashing begin !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Huh??

    Try changing the pill, I know it's a huge pain in the ass, takes at least thirty seconds. Then there's that damn barrel valve adjustment and idle speed, another 45 seconds or so.

    Having Enderle set everthing initially is the trick or at least someone that understand injection.

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    Senior Member 500BBC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 396_Ways_To_Spit View Post
    Mark, my engine builder stated the same thing but in a simple sentance I am just exploring my options. I LOVE the way the hat looks but I run my boat way too much for one
    I run my deal at Parker only, one pill for summer one for winter. Simple adjustments for idle and barrel valve. Not fat since it was set up right to begin with.
    I have four other friends runing injection, 3 hats 1 stack with zero issues.

    The plumbing was a pain in the ass getting the returns and venting right since I'm feeding a bullet tank from two side tanks.

    Tuning photo attached, not on the trailer.

    Almost forgot, the throttle response is worth it alone and I have no issues having to peddle it with two springs on the linkage.
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    Last edited by 500BBC; 02-03-2009 at 12:01 PM.

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    There are companies that convert a mechanical FI to electronic FI... Fully programmable, just a thought

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unchained View Post
    Looking cool is the biggest plus about the Enderle's.
    How they run on gas on a lake boat ........from what I've seen, is nearly unusable. Bring along plenty of rope because you're going to be towed a lot.

    That's why most guys run them on alcohol. The lack of tunability is not as noticable with a fuel that requires that much volume.
    Good injection system for a trailer queen boat though.

    Consider the tuning challenges.
    To produce a proper 14.5:1 fuel mixture at idle with EFI on gas takes aproximately a .002 sec injector pulse on the intake stroke which is every other revolution. That's a fraction of a drop.

    With a mechanical system, When all the injectors are flowing fuel 100% of the time, how could you ever get the injected fuel quantity down to match that ? It's impossible. They end up with a sloppy rich mixture that has actually subtracted HP rather than added it. I've seen it many, many, times.

    Let the bashing begin !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    No bashing here. But I will tell you that MFI can be tuned a whole lot better than evidently you have seen. There is plenty of ability to tune....if one has the ability to understand the simple system that it is.
    What you see are guys that throw the hat on there.....throw the pill and bypass that Enderle said to START WITH (which means fat....never burn your customer down) and expect it to be a turn key operation.

    Don't put a MFI system on if you don't intend to tune it to get it right. When you understand it you find it is simple as hell.

  12. #10
    A-HOLE HICK Lifes Rough's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiat48 View Post
    No bashing here. But I will tell you that MFI can be tuned a whole lot better than evidently you have seen. There is plenty of ability to tune....if one has the ability to understand the simple system that it is.
    What you see are guys that throw the hat on there.....throw the pill and bypass that Enderle said to START WITH (which means fat....never burn your customer down) and expect it to be a turn key operation.

    Don't put a MFI system on if you don't intend to tune it to get it right. When you understand it you find it is simple as hell.
    I am with Fiat on this one, there is some pretty simple ways to plumb these things and as far as tuning they are done once dialed in unless you have huge elavtion differences, The biggest problem is most people that buy them used have no experience with them. I know way more about inj than carbs, there for I never give any advice on carbs hell I have never owned a carberated public use or race boat but I don't say you can't make them work. I will say all of my public use blown gas deals work fine. Do your real homework then have a good time.

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    Highaboosta Unchained's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiat48 View Post
    No bashing here. But I will tell you that MFI can be tuned a whole lot better than evidently you have seen. There is plenty of ability to tune....if one has the ability to understand the simple system that it is.
    What you see are guys that throw the hat on there.....throw the pill and bypass that Enderle said to START WITH (which means fat....never burn your customer down) and expect it to be a turn key operation.

    Don't put a MFI system on if you don't intend to tune it to get it right. When you understand it you find it is simple as hell.
    Bob, you know I respect your knowledge and opinions and you have been able to apply decades of tuning knowledge to making MFI work on alcohol.

    This thread was specifically asking about MFI on gas and that would be way more of a tuning challenge considering the small volumes of fuel required to get a usable A/F ratio. I don't believe it's possible to get a consistently accurate A/F ratio over the whole rpm range that a lake boat gas engine runs in.
    An accurate A/F ratio would be near stoich at idle and a light load cruise speed and richen up to 12:1 on hard accelleration. At best the MFI would be rich all the time as there is no means to sense load.
    I would like to see a datalog of an O2 sensor on a MFI gas engine.

    Twin Turbo 1800 HP V-Drive lake boat

    http://s621.photobucket.com/albums/t...t=MAH05771.mp4

    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger View Post
    No one cares about your buddies old antiquated garden hose technology.
    Quote Originally Posted by MAXIMUS View Post
    I think I could run more boost but it's a real hand full right now

  14. #12
    Senior Member 500BBC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lifes Rough View Post
    I am with Fiat on this one, there is some pretty simple ways to plumb these things and as far as tuning they are done once dialed in unless you have huge elavtion differences, The biggest problem is most people that buy them used have no experience with them. I know way more about inj than carbs, there for I never give any advice on carbs hell I have never owned a carberated public use or race boat but I don't say you can't make them work. I will say all of my public use blown gas deals work fine. Do your real homework then have a good time.
    They're simple to plumb, just require more lines for return on a cruiser deal from a bullet tank.

    Your old tank from FEB is working great in my boat.

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    I want to say FAST makes an EFI hat. All the cool oldschool looks, w/ modern tunability.

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    With all due respect Mark. After switching all my stuff to injection I would never go back to carbs. I was told over & over & over it would never work on the GN. That was a few years back. My jet boat runs clean, starts right up (other than smoking a starter or 2, not the fault of the injection) As far as tuning they are a sweet heart to work with. 1 pill, a bypass spring & some shims for good transition, a tickle of the barrel valve & thats about it. It takes a little patience's & some help from a knowledgeable source & from there its happy sailing. Also I run mine on gasoline only.



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