engine build help, what would you do?
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engine build help, what would you do?

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    Senior Member californiadreamin's Avatar
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    Default engine build help, what would you do?

    I'm trying to decide how to proceed with this engine. It came with the boat and broke it last weekend.

    Mark IV block .060" over with a nasty crack in cylinder 5
    2 piece rear main 4.250 crank ( unknown brand and type )
    6.135 trick flow rods with 7/16 arp bolts
    One cracked piston
    Edelbrock oval ports 110cc chamber and 290cc intakes
    Roller cam and rockers ( unknown brand and specs )

    I was excited at first when I discovered the crank and considering I may need to buy a block, my first thought was to do a 540 and top it with good heads. I soon realized I have a set of short rods which I realize is not ideal.

    I'd like to get some suggestions on what direction to go with this deal. Ive done some digging and pistons aren't readily available to match this combo. I'd like to get the most bang for my buck here but I don't have enough experience with different combos to know what will stand up. This is for a 22 foot tunnel with an outdrive. Rpm not much over 5000.

    Thanks for any insight

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    Some guy obnoxious001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by californiadreamin View Post
    I'm trying to decide how to proceed with this engine. It came with the boat and broke it last weekend.

    Mark IV block .060" over with a nasty crack in cylinder 5
    2 piece rear main 4.250 crank ( unknown brand and type )
    6.135 trick flow rods with 7/16 arp bolts
    One cracked piston
    Edelbrock oval ports 110cc chamber and 290cc intakes
    Roller cam and rockers ( unknown brand and specs )

    I was excited at first when I discovered the crank and considering I may need to buy a block, my first thought was to do a 540 and top it with good heads. I soon realized I have a set of short rods which I realize is not ideal.

    I'd like to get some suggestions on what direction to go with this deal. Ive done some digging and pistons aren't readily available to match this combo. I'd like to get the most bang for my buck here but I don't have enough experience with different combos to know what will stand up. This is for a 22 foot tunnel with an outdrive. Rpm not much over 5000.

    Thanks for any insight
    A few photos of the crank may help decide a) if it's forged, and b) what possible brand it is.

    Is it a 4 bolt block? They are getting more difficult to find, and properly sleeved it would work fine for a pump gas compression type engine.

    Your stock length rods are no worse with a 540 than a 496, but if you were going to spend money for a 4.5" bore block, might as well spend money to at least by a .250" longer rod (6.385")

    Pistons are not a huge problem to have made up.

    If you have a Bravo drive, you can probably run up to 5500 or so safely, and perhaps around 600 HP. You do need to make absolutely sure the engine will idle down to 800 rpm to not damage the drive putting it in and out of gear.

    You probably need someone to take a good look at what you have. As I said, i would not be afraid of getting a thick wall, step sleeve installed in the block and running it if it's a 4 bolt block. I would definitely not bother if it's a 2 bolt. Maybe have the crank inspected and magnafluxed to make sure you are working with something decent. As I said, photos would help me see if I can tell you what it might be. I need to look up what the trick flow rods are, but might just consider buying new rods and pistons, especially if that piston can't easily be matched. Once again, don't know what you are working with to advise you on that. The Edelbrock heads are probably good for a 496 outdrive combination. I assume a single carb,, what intake and carb do you have?

    I recently put together a very similar combination for a guy for a heavier outdrive boat, been waiting for him to get the boat running to see how happy he is, but know I have given him about 150 more horsepower than he previously had in the boat.

    Feel free to PM if I can give you more help, or you would like to talk about it on the phone.

  4. #3
    Senior Member californiadreamin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by obnoxious001 View Post
    A few photos of the crank may help decide a) if it's forged, and b) what possible brand it is.

    Is it a 4 bolt block? They are getting more difficult to find, and properly sleeved it would work fine for a pump gas compression type engine.

    Your stock length rods are no worse with a 540 than a 496, but if you were going to spend money for a 4.5" bore block, might as well spend money to at least by a .250" longer rod (6.385")

    Pistons are not a huge problem to have made up.

    If you have a Bravo drive, you can probably run up to 5500 or so safely, and perhaps around 600 HP. You do need to make absolutely sure the engine will idle down to 800 rpm to not damage the drive putting it in and out of gear.

    You probably need someone to take a good look at what you have. As I said, i would not be afraid of getting a thick wall, step sleeve installed in the block and running it if it's a 4 bolt block. I would definitely not bother if it's a 2 bolt. Maybe have the crank inspected and magnafluxed to make sure you are working with something decent. As I said, photos would help me see if I can tell you what it might be. I need to look up what the trick flow rods are, but might just consider buying new rods and pistons, especially if that piston can't easily be matched. Once again, don't know what you are working with to advise you on that. The Edelbrock heads are probably good for a 496 outdrive combination. I assume a single carb,, what intake and carb do you have?

    I recently put together a very similar combination for a guy for a heavier outdrive boat, been waiting for him to get the boat running to see how happy he is, but know I have given him about 150 more horsepower than he previously had in the boat.

    Feel free to PM if I can give you more help, or you would like to talk about it on the phone.
    Barry, thanks for the reply. I am still considering your short block as an option to get the boat back in the water also.
    This is a four bolt block and definitely not straying from pump gas. It has a victor Jr rectangle port intake ( not sure why someone would pair that with these heads ) and I have an 850 double pumper to use or a 780 vacuum secondary to use.
    I will get some pictures posted this evening. What specifically about the crank should I photograph to determine casting or forging?
    This is an xr drive also. The current configuration had no problem idling 700 or even less and it spun about 5100.
    Is it safe to say that cam grind will have more of an impact on idle quality than displacement?
    Thanks again. Barry, what is the dome on the pistons going in that short block? Wondering if it will work with my heads

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    Some guy obnoxious001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by californiadreamin View Post
    Barry, thanks for the reply. I am still considering your short block as an option to get the boat back in the water also.
    This is a four bolt block and definitely not straying from pump gas. It has a victor Jr rectangle port intake ( not sure why someone would pair that with these heads ) and I have an 850 double pumper to use or a 780 vacuum secondary to use.
    I will get some pictures posted this evening. What specifically about the crank should I photograph to determine casting or forging?
    This is an xr drive also. The current configuration had no problem idling 700 or even less and it spun about 5100.
    Is it safe to say that cam grind will have more of an impact on idle quality than displacement?
    Thanks again. Barry, what is the dome on the pistons going in that short block? Wondering if it will work with my heads
    I believe they are 18cc domes,, depending on deck height perhaps 10.2-1 or so compression, need to check to see if they work with Edelbrock heads for sure. Camshaft is a key factor in the idle. Believe it or not, mismatched intake and heads are not necessarily a bad thing. I personally ran one or two engines like that in my flat years ago, and have even read about people racing with them.

    Photo of the front counter weight, and one or two more of anything that has any markings, including the "parting line" of the crankshaft, where the seam appears if there is one.

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    Im with Berry, adding a sleeve is not an issue for me. Depending on the budget if you switch to a 540. One of the easiest ways to make HP reliably is with displacement. I have a nice set of rods for sale if you are considering buying pistons, these rods would work well. The rod lenght will change the compression height in the piston.
    Keep us posted on what you end up doing, and how it turns out.

    Be safe, schick
    Half the people in the world are below average.

  8. #6
    ptc
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    I've got some 4.5" pistons for sale if these will work:

    http://www.performanceboats.com/part...-4-5-bore.html
    1975 Sanger True Flat - 496 BBC
    http://v-drivecalifornia.blogspot.com/

  9. #7
    Senior Member NiceGuyEddie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by obnoxious001 View Post
    A few photos of the crank may help decide a) if it's forged, and b) what possible brand it is.

    Is it a 4 bolt block? They are getting more difficult to find, and properly sleeved it would work fine for a pump gas compression type engine.

    Your stock length rods are no worse with a 540 than a 496, but if you were going to spend money for a 4.5" bore block, might as well spend money to at least by a .250" longer rod (6.385")

    Pistons are not a huge problem to have made up.

    If you have a Bravo drive, you can probably run up to 5500 or so safely, and perhaps around 600 HP. You do need to make absolutely sure the engine will idle down to 800 rpm to not damage the drive putting it in and out of gear.

    You probably need someone to take a good look at what you have. As I said, i would not be afraid of getting a thick wall, step sleeve installed in the block and running it if it's a 4 bolt block. I would definitely not bother if it's a 2 bolt. Maybe have the crank inspected and magnafluxed to make sure you are working with something decent. As I said, photos would help me see if I can tell you what it might be. I need to look up what the trick flow rods are, but might just consider buying new rods and pistons, especially if that piston can't easily be matched. Once again, don't know what you are working with to advise you on that. The Edelbrock heads are probably good for a 496 outdrive combination. I assume a single carb,, what intake and carb do you have?

    I recently put together a very similar combination for a guy for a heavier outdrive boat, been waiting for him to get the boat running to see how happy he is, but know I have given him about 150 more horsepower than he previously had in the boat.

    Feel free to PM if I can give you more help, or you would like to talk about it on the phone.
    P

    Passed this on the 57 a couple days ago.

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  10. #8
    Senior Member californiadreamin's Avatar
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    I did see your ad for pistons, I am keeping them in mind
    Last edited by californiadreamin; 06-08-2016 at 07:11 PM.

  11. #9
    Senior Member californiadreamin's Avatar
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    Ok here are a few pictures. Obviously I missed the big stamp on the front web. In the rod picture, my caliper only goes to 6.125 but you get the idea. I don't think trick flow is making rods anymore and I have no experience with their parts but these rods look fairly stout to me
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  12. #10
    Some guy obnoxious001's Avatar
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    I can't enlarge the photos, need to see what's on the front of the crank. I am thinking it may be an RPM crank, which were decent imports. So either repair your block or replace it, new pistons, balance and put it together. Possibly regrind your roller cam if you don't think you had ultimate performance.

    I might still recommend selling those rods and buying a new, longer set. I think Trick Flow is a Summit brand name.

  13. #11
    Senior Member californiadreamin's Avatar
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    Crank says scat 4.250. Here's a better picture of the parting line...looks cast to me
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  14. #12
    Some guy obnoxious001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by californiadreamin View Post
    Crank says scat 4.250. Here's a better picture of the parting line...looks cast to me
    OK, if you can read "scat" on the crank, how about the part number?

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    Senior Member californiadreamin's Avatar
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    I'm not seeing a part number. Would the number likely be stamped in below the surface or cast in and raised? It looks like quite a bit has been duburred and smoothed. Only number I see is this little tiny guy up on the snout, says 6135
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  16. #14
    I'm No Expert Shaun's Avatar
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    How much power are you wanting to make?

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