piston rings
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piston rings

  1. #1
    Senior Member CHEVY JET's Avatar
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    Default piston rings

    Im Sure Its Been Mulled Over A Ton...... But I Dont Know The Anser, So Here It Is. Do I Gap The Rings Differently For A Jet Compared To A Car. If Yes What Do I Gap Them At. I Have A .030 Over 454, With Srp Forged .200 Dome And Total Seal Rings Prt #cr9190-35. I Stuck A Ring In The Cylender And It Had A .015th Gap From The Package. Whare Should I Gap Them???? Thanks, Don

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    E-7 Sheepdog (ret) SmokinLowriderSS's Avatar
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    Yes, and no.

    You can gap them tighter in a thermostat-regulated car engine, because thermal expansion of the parts is more uniform and controlled.

    You do not have to gap them especially wide.

    GM's own high performance use spec for the Big Block is .022" top, .016" 2nd, .016" oil rails.
    The 2nd ring doesn't get nearly as hot as the top one, so expands less.
    I would personally gap it very closer to the same as the top, to avoid pressure build-up and resultant flutter.

    Open that top ring up a little, get it to .020" or a tad more, and it'll be fine.
    "As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
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    Boat Nut sleekcrafter's Avatar
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    The latest trend on the second ring is to open it up a few more thou, than the top ring. Once it's past the top compression ring, it's done....it's not going to combust, or make you any more power. Opening up the second ring let some of the pressure out of the between the rings, and will reduce any chance of ring flutter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CHEVY JET View Post
    Im Sure Its Been Mulled Over A Ton...... But I Dont Know The Anser, So Here It Is. Do I Gap The Rings Differently For A Jet Compared To A Car. If Yes What Do I Gap Them At. I Have A .030 Over 454, With Srp Forged .200 Dome And Total Seal Rings Prt #cr9190-35. I Stuck A Ring In The Cylender And It Had A .015th Gap From The Package. Whare Should I Gap Them???? Thanks, Don
    My last set of sealed power rings stated that a larger second ring gap helped the top ring seal better. So I gapped my .030 over 454 at .019 to .020 top(I added a thousanth) and .023 second. That gap was based off their marine recomendations. Keith Blacks/Silvolite has an interesting article on ring gaps and experements with the fact that a .030 ring gap will make the same power. Cylinders don't expand as much in a jet since the engine doesn't get very warm so you have run more gap and piston clearence than in a car
    Last edited by jungledave; 03-28-2009 at 07:13 AM. Reason: grammer

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    21 Daytona Outlaw's Avatar
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    visit JE/SRP and Total seal's website. lots of info there

    here is a link to 4032 pistons
    http://www.jepistons.com/dept/tech/d...instrc4032.pdf
    #55

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    I'm No Expert Shaun's Avatar
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    I was just going to start a post about this... My pistons are coated mahles though. I remember back on hotboat there was a topic started about this with opening either the top or bottom (think it was the bottom) to help reduce ring flutter and to increase performance.... Were all you guys at that discussed this

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaun View Post
    I was just going to start a post about this... My pistons are coated mahles though. I remember back on hotboat there was a topic started about this with opening either the top or bottom (think it was the bottom) to help reduce ring flutter and to increase performance.... Were all you guys at that discussed this
    Shaun,
    Yes more gap on the second. For your build I would open the second ring up about 25% more then the top ring.

    Oh yeah, how do you like those Mahle pistons?
    Chris Straub
    Straub Technologies

    3HP is an A$$ Whooping!!! JW

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    I'm No Expert Shaun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cstraub View Post
    Shaun,
    Yes more gap on the second. For your build I would open the second ring up about 25% more then the top ring.

    Oh yeah, how do you like those Mahle pistons?
    They are nice! I've got pictures of everything going to start posting here soon. What do you think i should start with for the top?

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    Senior Member ol guy's Avatar
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    This will probably get slammed and thats okay! Coming from an ol guy that worked for sealed power for a few years the rule of thumb on ring gap is .004 per inch of bore. So do the math. Now I will admit that is closed cooling system data and heat disapation on a marine or fresh water system will vary. then If you toss nos into the mix things and specs will change even more. The worst part is ring flutter and gaps butting heads. Sleekcrafter is correct on opening up the top ring to help the second ring get a charge of help to seal. If it were me I would gap the tops at .022 and the second at .020 in a marine app w/o nos. With juice that is a wide open thought cause you're tossing a MAJOR coolant that will close gaps in a heart-beat by decreaseing expansion rate in a micro second. I am no nos fan and self admitted ignorant to its effects on a motor. But I have read in these forums that if you run to tight with nos you will get serious ring butt in a hurry! M

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaun View Post
    They are nice! I've got pictures of everything going to start posting here soon. What do you think i should start with for the top?
    Every piston mfg is different. Follow what Mahle has in there instructions on ring gap for your application for the top ring.
    Chris Straub
    Straub Technologies

    3HP is an A$$ Whooping!!! JW

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    Quote Originally Posted by ol guy View Post
    This will probably get slammed and thats okay! Coming from an ol guy that worked for sealed power for a few years the rule of thumb on ring gap is .004 per inch of bore. So do the math. Now I will admit that is closed cooling system data and heat disapation on a marine or fresh water system will vary. then If you toss nos into the mix things and specs will change even more. The worst part is ring flutter and gaps butting heads. Sleekcrafter is correct on opening up the top ring to help the second ring get a charge of help to seal. If it were me I would gap the tops at .022 and the second at .020 in a marine app w/o nos. With juice that is a wide open thought cause you're tossing a MAJOR coolant that will close gaps in a heart-beat by decreaseing expansion rate in a micro second. I am no nos fan and self admitted ignorant to its effects on a motor. But I have read in these forums that if you run to tight with nos you will get serious ring butt in a hurry! M
    Ol Guy,
    Did you know the "Mad Scientist"? Barry Robotnic?
    Chris Straub
    Straub Technologies

    3HP is an A$$ Whooping!!! JW

  14. #12
    Senior Member hotbo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cstraub View Post
    Ol Guy,
    Did you know the "Mad Scientist"? Barry Robotnic?

    lol!!!!it has been known for sometime that opening the 2nd 1 up further helps with ring flutter.i just filed a full set of speedpro rings this weekend.bbc style.

    it states in there instructions to open the second ring up alittle further than the top ringwe did .028 on the top and .030 on the 2nd this is what it said for nos instructions/with forged speed pro pistons.travis

  15. #13
    Old Timer LeE ss13's Avatar
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    Childs & Albert Zero Gap 2nd rings. ZGS.
    I don't know what I don't know because I forgot !!!

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    Senior Member ol guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cstraub View Post
    Ol Guy,
    Did you know the "Mad Scientist"? Barry Robotnic?
    Yes I do!!! He talks to me as I am building my motors I have ran this question by some "others" and will give you a shot! Have you ever seen a lifter explode in the bore, I have one and took it to my grinder yesterday for his opinion! The guys I have sent P.M.s to are baffled. Let us (me and the mad man)hear from you. M

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