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Valve Lash

  1. #43
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    That's Ok for those who have done it many times over and over. But a lot of people are looking for a simple way they can be sure works. Now, I've done it many times with mine and have written down the degree location for each and every intake and exhaust valve for all cylinders and will continue to use my system because I know it works for me and is accurate, and I even have tons of tolerance on both sides if I should miss my exact degree, but I don't. It's written down and I follow it. I also know that I don't miss any cylinder, and it is 1/4 turn for each.

    It makes me feel good knowing each one is correct. I figure there are probably other things I'm not aware of, so I try to eliminate every error that I can.
    Yes, I know a lot of people that use the method each of you are talking about, and it must work. And I'm not saying it's wrong, I'm just not as comfortable using it. It's easy to get confused. Well, it's easy for me anyway.

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  3. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleeper CP View Post
    Nice numbers .......

    what carb did you run ?
    Dan Davinci 750 tunnel ram carbs

  4. #45
    Senior Member wagspe208's Avatar
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    My point is...
    EIEIO works for every 4 stroke in existence.
    You do NOT need to know firing order, NO marked balancer, lobe profile does NOT matter.
    I don't care how anyone does it...
    So, you can learn something that always works... or you can memorize bullshit for EVERY ENGINE YOU TOUCH.
    I'm lazy I guess.
    I have hookers and booze to think about.... NOT the firing order of every piece I touch.

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  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by wagspe208 View Post
    My point is...
    EIEIO works for every 4 stroke in existence.
    You do NOT need to know firing order, NO marked balancer, lobe profile does NOT matter.
    I don't care how anyone does it...
    So, you can learn something that always works... or you can memorize bullshit for EVERY ENGINE YOU TOUCH.
    I'm lazy I guess.
    I have hookers and booze to think about.... NOT the firing order of every piece I touch.
    I understand, and there is certainly nothing wrong doing it the way you, and many others describe. If it works, it works.
    You have a point, in that I need a marked balancer using my method, and probably wouldn't be correct for others engines.
    As far as trying to memorize the numbers, I hope you're kidding. I wouldn't even try, I know better.
    If I were doing it on multiple different unknown engines, it wouldn't work too.
    My method works for someone who does it occasionally or someone relatively new, and they can be sure it's correct. And, once you have the information, I find it very easy to follow.

    I'm glad to hear you have your priorities in order, and when you say piece, you're talking about engines and not the Hookers or Booze..

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by wagspe208 View Post
    I have hookers and booze to think about.... NOT the firing order of every piece I touch.
    Post of the week candidate right there!

    By the way, Gone Green those are nice numbers. That should be a runner.

    Paul

  8. #48
    Senior Member wagspe208's Avatar
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    I am not bashing anyone's method... honestly.
    But like I said...
    You aren't doing heart surgery.
    Wags

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimsplace View Post
    I understand, and there is certainly nothing wrong doing it the way you, and many others describe. If it works, it works.
    You have a point, in that I need a marked balancer using my method, and probably wouldn't be correct for others engines.
    As far as trying to memorize the numbers, I hope you're kidding. I wouldn't even try, I know better.
    If I were doing it on multiple different unknown engines, it wouldn't work too.
    My method works for someone who does it occasionally or someone relatively new, and they can be sure it's correct. And, once you have the information, I find it very easy to follow.

    I'm glad to hear you have your priorities in order, and when you say piece, you're talking about engines and not the Hookers or Booze..
    if we're doing it after every lap, or every couple laps, eieio works just fine. it's what everybody does that's checking it frequently.

  10. #50
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    Lash is a great tuning tool. The only real reason for lash is to make sure the valve closes after everything heats up and expands. How much lash is figured out when the cam designer decides on a lobe and wants to fine tune the valve events. I've seen 10hp on the dyno with a .002" lash change.

    I set mine cold and check them hot. Every conventional aluminum headed big block Chevy I've ever worked on grows by .006" when hot. You can tighten lash till the valves won't close and it you really can't hurt anything...as long as the valves don't hit the pistons. You have to be careful increasing lash because the lifter will go right over the clearance ramp and start hitting the opening ramp on the lobe and then bad things can happen.

    The EOIC method is foolproof, and the EOIC method following the firing order is quick. With the TDC method, both valves may be closed but you can still be in the clearance ramp on the closing side of the ex lobe, not on the base circle, and your lash settings will end up being a lot more than if you set them there @ TDC. The EOIC method pretty well insures the lifter is on the base circle of the respective lobes.

    Very seldom will two people get the exact same lash setting. It's all about technique and feel, but as been said, what's more important is consistency between valves. Some have a "heavy" feel, some have a "light" feel...just develop a consistent "feel" and make them all the same. Lash on the tighter side will usually calm things down and can actually show more power, regardless of what to does to the cam events, by simply reducing valve bounce -but- it's always best to start with the cam grinder's recommendations. No one cam is going to be absolutely perfect for the given combination...even a high dollar custom. It's virtually impossible to give the cam designer every pertinent detail about the engine and even then, no engine is 100% consistent or "exactly" as designed. Every engine is a compromise and that's one reason that lash is a great tuning tool, even from cylinder to cylinder.
    JMO
    Last edited by scott foxwell; 09-05-2017 at 08:40 AM.
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  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimsplace View Post
    That's Ok for those who have done it many times over and over. But a lot of people are looking for a simple way they can be sure works. Now, I've done it many times with mine and have written down the degree location for each and every intake and exhaust valve for all cylinders and will continue to use my system because I know it works for me and is accurate, and I even have tons of tolerance on both sides if I should miss my exact degree, but I don't. It's written down and I follow it. I also know that I don't miss any cylinder, and it is 1/4 turn for each.

    It makes me feel good knowing each one is correct. I figure there are probably other things I'm not aware of, so I try to eliminate every error that I can.
    Yes, I know a lot of people that use the method each of you are talking about, and it must work. And I'm not saying it's wrong, I'm just not as comfortable using it. It's easy to get confused. Well, it's easy for me anyway.
    You can find a small place on the valve cover or somewhere else on the engine and write the FO with a sharpie. You sure don't need to know every degree of opening. Start @ no1. Watch the intake rocker...when it starts to close, adjust the ex. You don't even have to look at the balancer. When done, look at the next intake rocker in the firing order. Move the crank about 1/4 turn. Little more, little less, doesn't matter. You're looking at the rocker. It should start to close. When it does, stop and adjust the ex valve. When done, look at the next intake rocker in the firing order. Move the crank about another 1/4 turn. The rocker should start to close. When it does, stop, adjust the ex rocker, and so on and so on. When you get back to no 1, roll the engine till the ex. starts to open. When it does, stop and adjust the intake valve. When done, look at the next ex rocker in the firing order. Roll the engine about 1/4 turn and the rocker should start to open. When it does, stop and adjust the intake, and so on and so on. With this method, you only need to know two things; the lash, and the firing order. When you're done, take some alcohol or lacquer thinner and wipe off wherever you wrote the firing order. OR- leave it for the next time.
    Nothing could be more simple.
    If God is your co-pilot, change seats!
    Acts 2:38, the perfect answer to the perfect question.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by ol guy View Post
    That is shear perfection. I have ran valves the same way for YEARS. You just need the feel of a cam heal and lobe lift. Once thats done Flock all this firing order and 1/4 turn crap. Cam specs, lift and duration work great for a stock cam but you toss in cam advance/retard that for the most part goes in the trash. The best way to learn this is by running valves with the manifold off and look down the valley to see the lobes and heels, at the same time watch the rockers and adjacent lobe on the cam. Once that has been done with the engine together and valve covers off you will have a better idea as to were you are on the cam. Bump button for the starter(as Jocko said) helps a butt-load!!!
    If you do the method Jocko described, you'll find that the EOIC method basically gives you the exact some thing but is a lot quicker. Your idea of watching lifters and lobes is going to tell you the same thing. You don't have to re-invent the wheel here. In the end it's all saying the same thing. Get the lifter on the base circle. Heck I know guys who watch the rocker, see when it's at max lift, then spin the crank one full turn. They do this for every valve. That takes forever!!!, BUT, it's the same thing as EOIC, or putting your thumb on the pushrod side of the rocker. The only method here that can get you in trouble is the TDC method.
    If God is your co-pilot, change seats!
    Acts 2:38, the perfect answer to the perfect question.

  13. #53
    Senior Member wagspe208's Avatar
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    One of those posts explained why to use the eioc..... exhaust lobe profile.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott foxwell View Post
    You can find a small place on the valve cover or somewhere else on the engine and write the FO with a sharpie. You sure don't need to know every degree of opening. Start @ no1. Watch the intake rocker...when it starts to close, adjust the ex. You don't even have to look at the balancer. When done, look at the next intake rocker in the firing order. Move the crank about 1/4 turn. Little more, little less, doesn't matter. You're looking at the rocker. It should start to close. When it does, stop and adjust the ex valve. When done, look at the next intake rocker in the firing order. Move the crank about another 1/4 turn. The rocker should start to close. When it does, stop, adjust the ex rocker, and so on and so on. When you get back to no 1, roll the engine till the ex. starts to open. When it does, stop and adjust the intake valve. When done, look at the next ex rocker in the firing order. Roll the engine about 1/4 turn and the rocker should start to open. When it does, stop and adjust the intake, and so on and so on. With this method, you only need to know two things; the lash, and the firing order. When you're done, take some alcohol or lacquer thinner and wipe off wherever you wrote the firing order. OR- leave it for the next time.
    Nothing could be more simple.
    I wrote the numbers on the stud girdle with a sharpie after cleaning the oil with lacquer thiner and it stays for a long time. And, you're correct about after the first valve, it's 1/4 turn to the next. In my case, I have a crank trigger and I'll rotate to each of the 4 locations for the next valve. It is simple and it works for me. Having the numbers written helps to double check that you're on the correct valve. I've found it's convenient to write the degree numbers above each valve as a double check just to make sure I'm still on the correct valve. It is simple. (works for me, so it must be)

    I may be doing a bit of over kill, but, I put a dial indicator on one of the lobes and located the exact center of the base for my numbers. One for intake and one for exhaust.
    Last edited by jimsplace; 09-05-2017 at 09:13 AM.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by wagspe208 View Post
    One of those posts explained why to use the eioc..... exhaust lobe profile.
    Ex lobes can get long-winded with big, easy closing ramps. Especially on blown stuff...not that you'd know anything about that.
    If God is your co-pilot, change seats!
    Acts 2:38, the perfect answer to the perfect question.

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