Wide Band O2 comparison article
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Wide Band O2 comparison article

  1. #1
    Member JAY4SPEED's Avatar
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    Default Wide Band O2 comparison article

    This is a pretty good article on WBO2 sensor comparison.

    http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/r...B_Shootout.pdf

    The original article.....needs subscription to read the end of the article
    http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2...tout/index.php

    Jay
    Last edited by JAY4SPEED; 02-14-2008 at 01:08 AM.
    "You just can't fix stupid!"

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    Senior Member Bigblockbill's Avatar
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    I just bought the new Wide band O2 from Autometer for my old chevelle and these things are truly awesome for fine tuning an engine. No more guess work!, no having to pull the plugs after a pass. Regardless of what circuit you are running on you know what the ratio is. Now if I could only find away to mount it on my boat with water running thru the exhaust...
    24' Eliminator Fundeck

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    21 Daytona Outlaw's Avatar
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    Jay which one are you buying??

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    I have to ask some stupid questions.

    Are these meters for testing/tuning or do you mount the display in the vehicle? Can they be used with any intake system (non-EFI)?

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    I have 1 more, where do you install the o2 sensor in wet headers?

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    Member JAY4SPEED's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigblockbill View Post
    I just bought the new Wide band O2 from Autometer for my old chevelle and these things are truly awesome for fine tuning an engine. No more guess work!, no having to pull the plugs after a pass. Regardless of what circuit you are running on you know what the ratio is. Now if I could only find away to mount it on my boat with water running thru the exhaust...
    WBO2 is such an indispensable tuning tool as you have seen. Its not only for the EFI guys, but carb guys love them too. No guess work involved. Hell, I can't read a plug as well as I'd like to, but I sure can read a WB02 display!

    Quote Originally Posted by Outlaw View Post
    Jay which one are you buying??
    Hi Paul! All of the WBO2s that I have ever owned have been from Innovate, so of course I'm partial to them. I can't really comment on other brands, but most use the same bosch sensor itself. I've been using the LM1 for a while now and love it because of the portability of it. I need to be able to move it from vehicle to vehicle with minimal fuss when doing tunes. The LM2 is going to be out in a few months and I'm sure I'll pick up one of those. You can get the LM2 in a one channel or two channel versions to monitor one or two banks, similar to the F.A.S.T. setup but its believed that the Innovate is more accurate and user friendly with data logging and all. I'd be willing to bet with the LM2 coming out the LM1s will be a lot cheaper in a few months. There is more info here:

    http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/resources/news18.php

    By the way, hows the project coming?

    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod56cars View Post
    I have to ask some stupid questions.

    Are these meters for testing/tuning or do you mount the display in the vehicle? Can they be used with any intake system (non-EFI)?
    Depending on the model you buy, either can be done. You can purchase a permanently installed gauge or a portable one that can be moved from vehicle to vehicle. Yes you can use it on carb and EFI. With carbs, the WBO2 is more of a stand alone tool than with EFI. Usually EFI systems will integrate the WBO2 to monitor fueling while the engine is running and make changes accordingly "on the fly". With the carb, of course you'll have to watch where the fueling needs to be changed load and RPM wise and manually make changes to jetting etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod56cars View Post
    I have 1 more, where do you install the o2 sensor in wet headers?
    Thats the million dollar questions that us boaters are frustrated with. You can't have the WBO2 in contact with liquids like water injected exhaust. The sensor has a built in heating element that gets the sensor up to operating range quicker. When water or any other liquid comes in contact with the sensor's tip, the thermal shock will shatter the heating element in the sensor. So far our only options are to run dry headers with WBO2s installed or run water jacketed headers with a bung installed straight through to the dry part of the header. But, remember, you can always turn the water off to the headers, install the WBO2s, due some data logging, make changes to where you want it, then remove the sensors, install sensor plugs into the sensor bungs and turn the water back on.

    Jay
    Last edited by JAY4SPEED; 02-14-2008 at 06:15 PM.
    "You just can't fix stupid!"

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    Wishin I was at the lake! Brian's Avatar
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    I have an Autometer deal on the way, have jacketed headers all the way through transom so am hoping that the sensor will survive. Will wire into the engine controller so I can do data logging for tuning and possibly run closed loop at idle. We'll see how it goes!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian View Post
    I have an Autometer deal on the way, have jacketed headers all the way through transom so am hoping that the sensor will survive. Will wire into the engine controller so I can do data logging for tuning and possibly run closed loop at idle. We'll see how it goes!
    If you would, take some pics and post up the progress. Lets get some some EFI and WBO2 discussion going. We had a couple of good threads going on the subject on the "other" site, lets get some going here as well.

    Jay
    "You just can't fix stupid!"

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    21 Daytona Outlaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian View Post
    I have an Autometer deal on the way, have jacketed headers all the way through transom so am hoping that the sensor will survive. Will wire into the engine controller so I can do data logging for tuning and possibly run closed loop at idle. We'll see how it goes!
    I had a O2 sensor on my last boat running IMCO powerflows
    just sent the riser back to IMCO and had a bung welded thru the
    jacket, it was still working 2 years later when I sold it so jacketed
    all the way you should be fine. Brian what ECM are you running?

    Jay My project is going way too slow, My job got extremely busy
    in December and hasn't slowed down yet, and hope it wont for a long
    time $$$ We have Drilling Rigs moving locations every 6-8 days and completing them at just as fast.

    I have looked at the LM1 before, but I think you just convinced
    me to purchase it. I still plan on tuning with the wide band
    and running in closed loop with a cheap narrow band, If I understand
    correctly I will be able to overlay data from my Haltech
    and the LM1. Do you think I would need the RPM kit LMA-2
    to correctly match the data?
    I have convinced myself to use my 502 as a test engine, then
    after I feel more confident with my EFI knowledge, build a 540.
    Last edited by Outlaw; 02-15-2008 at 11:38 AM.

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    Wishin I was at the lake! Brian's Avatar
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    I'm running the TEC3 from Electromotive. It's about 5 years old now, and originally only had narrow band support. A recent software & firmware upgrade now includes wide band support. I was looking at the program last night, and there's a calibration map that you can use to set the "curve" (actually a straight line) for measured AFR vs O2 sensor voltage, RPM and MAP limits where you can switch from closed to open loop operation if you like, authority limits in % for injector pulse width modification, and then a big table of RPM vs MAP where you set the desired AFR at each point. If I can figure out how to use it all, it appears to be pretty flexible.

    The Autometer is pretty slick because it's both an in-dash gauge for real time monitoring, and has the outputs needed to hook back into a data logger or ECM for closed loop control. I didn't see it in the comparison article. I hope it's accurate! I guess I'll find out when I compare data with my old dyno sheets from when we did the original tuning.

    Outlaw, I'm not familiar with the Haltech, but if it's like the Electromotive, it will have extra sensor input channels (+/- wire connections) that you can use for the air/fuel meter, which I believe is a 0-5V signal, and it will log data from that input along with all the other data available in the ECM, making it easy to correlate. Just make sure your air/fuel meter has provisions for signal output and let the Haltech do the logging. That is also what enables you to use the same signal for closed loop operation.
    Last edited by Brian; 02-15-2008 at 09:44 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JAY4SPEED View Post
    If you would, take some pics and post up the progress. Lets get some some EFI and WBO2 discussion going. We had a couple of good threads going on the subject on the "other" site, lets get some going here as well.

    Jay
    X2. I'd rather be a lurker on this thread than the guy that continually asks a bunch of stupid questions.

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    21 Daytona Outlaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod56cars View Post
    X2. I'd rather be a lurker on this thread than the guy that continually asks a bunch of stupid questions.
    Come on I remember some teacher saying there was no such thing as a stupid question.

    My Haltech will support wideband
    Last edited by Outlaw; 02-15-2008 at 11:40 AM.

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    Paul,

    Does the Haltech have any datalogging built in to the programming software? If your not in immediate need of a WBO2 right now, I wouldn't rush out and get a LM1. If you can, wait until the LM2 is out (a few months). I know its more $$$ but with the new features, it may be worth it. Besides, the LM2 can be purchased with 2 channel logging so that both banks can be monitored instead of just 1 like the LM1. I know the LM1 has a serial output and I've heard that the LM2 may have a digital output for ECM use? That would be bad ass!

    Jay
    "You just can't fix stupid!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian View Post
    I'm running the TEC3 from Electromotive. It's about 5 years old now, and originally only had narrow band support. A recent software & firmware upgrade now includes wide band support. I was looking at the program last night, and there's a calibration map that you can use to set the "curve" (actually a straight line) for measured AFR vs O2 sensor voltage, RPM and MAP limits where you can switch from closed to open loop operation if you like, authority limits in % for injector pulse width modification, and then a big table of RPM vs MAP where you set the desired AFR at each point. If I can figure out how to use it all, it appears to be pretty flexible.

    The Autometer is pretty slick because it's both an in-dash gauge for real time monitoring, and has the outputs needed to hook back into a data logger or ECM for closed loop control. I didn't see it in the comparison article. I hope it's accurate! I guess I'll find out when I compare data with my old dyno sheets from when we did the original tuning.

    Outlaw, I'm not familiar with the Haltech, but if it's like the Electromotive, it will have extra sensor input channels (+/- wire connections) that you can use for the air/fuel meter, which I believe is a 0-5V signal, and it will log data from that input along with all the other data available in the ECM, making it easy to correlate. Just make sure your air/fuel meter has provisions for signal output and let the Haltech do the logging. That is also what enables you to use the same signal for closed loop operation.

    Brian are you using the ignition coil packs instead of a distributor with the TEC3? That setup is so trick for a marine application.

    Jay
    "You just can't fix stupid!"

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