Timing questions
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Timing questions

  1. #1
    What the Hell is That? 72Hondo's Avatar
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    Default Timing questions

    So I found out my timing is locked out. What are the pro's and cons of having locked out timing? Also I read in another thread a guy has his locked out at 37* or 38* (SBC) mine is locked out at 27* for right now (SBC) maybe that's why its running like crap. It will run all day on the trailer idle, rev etc. but as soon as you dump it in the water and put a load on it it wont idle worth a crap. Could timing effect this? Why does it run fine on the trailer but when put a load on it, wont? What kind of load does a Jet pump put on a motor (the impeller is a "B" if that matters)

    my thinking is its a slight load to the crank so the pistons/crank might move a hair slower but timing remains unchanged hence the no idleing. Hell I dont know im just brain storming.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    Log off and go float, hang in the party coves, Show and shine on the trailer, fill up the boat, wax it, v-drive, jet, outdrive, and if you got a canoe and your reading this, you sir, need to phucking upgrade.

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    Cantard 71hallett's Avatar
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    Timing also affects engine vacuum. Low vac is probably why it doesnt like the load.
    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    It would be a balmy 85* in Steel's shop if he would move a little faster

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    Some guy obnoxious001's Avatar
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    Idle speed will decrease in the water due to the load on the pump. To the best of my knowledge, you shouldn't really be running the engine with the pump dry.

    Depending on your engine, I would probably consider 36 degrees max. I build a high compression small block that runs on race gas in a dirt car and we run it at 36.

    Get the timing set where you want it before you bother to change the idle speed with carb adjustment, since it will increase when the timing is advanced.

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    Senior Member Oldsquirt's Avatar
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    If you are trying to set idle speed and mixture on the trailer, and expecting that to be correct when you drop it in the water, you are wasting your time. The pump does put enough load on the motor that those adjustments need to be finalized in the water.

    Why are you only running the timing at 27* ?

  7. #5
    What the Hell is That? 72Hondo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by obnoxious001 View Post
    Idle speed will decrease in the water due to the load on the pump. To the best of my knowledge, you shouldn't really be running the engine with the pump dry.

    Depending on your engine, I would probably consider 36 degrees max. I build a high compression small block that runs on race gas in a dirt car and we run it at 36.

    Get the timing set where you want it before you bother to change the idle speed with carb adjustment, since it will increase when the timing is advanced.
    Here is another question,

    so the higher the compression the more advanced the timing? Say I'm running a blown 6.1 deal with 6lbs of boost. the lower the comp the more advance you can get in?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    Log off and go float, hang in the party coves, Show and shine on the trailer, fill up the boat, wax it, v-drive, jet, outdrive, and if you got a canoe and your reading this, you sir, need to phucking upgrade.

  8. #6
    What the Hell is That? 72Hondo's Avatar
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    I wasn't really playing with the carbs air/fuel i was more playing with the timing. I'm afraid of going to far on the timing to where I start melting shit. I guess sometimes i play it too safe. that day it ran really lean according to the plugs and the POP so i trailed it and decided to enjoy the rest of the weekend.

    For what its worth i always set the idle high on the trailer and do the final adjustments on the water
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    Log off and go float, hang in the party coves, Show and shine on the trailer, fill up the boat, wax it, v-drive, jet, outdrive, and if you got a canoe and your reading this, you sir, need to phucking upgrade.

  9. #7
    yep
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    set the timing at 32 if its running lean put some fuel in it and set the idle on the water and forget what it idles at on the trailer

  10. #8
    Some guy obnoxious001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Btnhtillidie View Post
    Here is another question,

    so the higher the compression the more advanced the timing? Say I'm running a blown 6.1 deal with 6lbs of boost. the lower the comp the more advance you can get in?
    I didn't see any mention of blower in the first post, forget what I said about 36 degrees.
    Your avatar shows a carbureted engine.

    You will want to make sure your carburetion and fuel delivery is all correct, and I tend to agree with your "safe" method, and also agree with 32 max for a blown application,, but maybe 30 is safer and able to make adequate power for your application.

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    Most conventional blown BBC stuff loves around 32 degrees. SBC's will usually take more. Remember too little timing will hurt as much as to much.

    As to locked out timing I have only seen 1 motor benefit from NOT having it locked. It was on a ~900+HP NA 598" with tunnel ram and 2X1050 Dominators...he could not get the motor to idle down to a reasonable number to shift a bravo so he put a curve in it. Before, with 4150 carbs it was locked as well.

    Locked timing helps motors start, idle, and run. I also feel it helps eliminate "surge" in roots blower applications...unless of course you like surge. It's also one less thing to maintain when the springs in the distributor freeze up over time.

    Most NA SBC stuff run's 36-38 best...when you get into ~11:1 motors with Domes then you usually have to turn it up to ~42. Stock 500EFI's run 36 from the factory!

  12. #10
    What the Hell is That? 72Hondo's Avatar
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    Sorry I should have mentioned a blower app. (177) right now its over carbed and i need to fix some things in the fuel delivery that's why was on the safe side when i ran it last.

    its just a mild Small Block at best. 332 (327 0.30) forged everything, low static compression, with a 177 set up for 6 lbs at the moment. Sorry if i mislead anyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    Log off and go float, hang in the party coves, Show and shine on the trailer, fill up the boat, wax it, v-drive, jet, outdrive, and if you got a canoe and your reading this, you sir, need to phucking upgrade.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cjordan View Post
    Most conventional blown BBC stuff loves around 32 degrees. SBC's will usually take more. Remember too little timing will hurt as much as to much.

    As to locked out timing I have only seen 1 motor benefit from NOT having it locked. It was on a ~900+HP NA 598" with tunnel ram and 2X1050 Dominators...he could not get the motor to idle down to a reasonable number to shift a bravo so he put a curve in it. Before, with 4150 carbs it was locked as well.

    Locked timing helps motors start, idle, and run. I also feel it helps eliminate "surge" in roots blower applications...unless of course you like surge. It's also one less thing to maintain when the springs in the distributor freeze up over time.

    Most NA SBC stuff run's 36-38 best...when you get into ~11:1 motors with Domes then you usually have to turn it up to ~42. Stock 500EFI's run 36 from the factory!

    Why would you run more timing with 11:1 compresion? Would't you run less timing with more compression?

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    Senior Member H20MOFO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmy D View Post
    Why would you run more timing with 11:1 compresion? Would't you run less timing with more compression?
    I don't want to put words in his mouth....usually with more compression comes more cam overlap.....I thought the amount of timing a motor would "like" had to do with things like overlap, open vs closed chamber heads, altitude, high octaine fuel vs low,ect....
    Another Hot Boat refugee

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    Higher compression requires less timing, blowers sometimes like more than N/A, it depends on compression ratio and boost. TIMINATOR
    MODESTY IS A CRUTCH FOR THE INCOMPETENT!

  16. #14
    Senior Member Hullshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TIMINATOR View Post
    Higher compression requires less timing, blowers sometimes like more than N/A, it depends on compression ratio and boost. TIMINATOR
    ?????? maybe alcohol blower motors..

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