MLS or ICS ???
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MLS or ICS ???

  1. #1
    i'm back!! 1QuickCP's Avatar
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    Default MLS or ICS ???

    Well need some opinions...what will seal better, the mls gasket or the titan ICS?? application is bbc 606 cu in 9-1 with 20psi on gas (C-16) I of course have always run copper with steel wire and reciever groove zero issues but do not want to mess with wire/groove in this new motor..Thanks for ur opinions...

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    Senior Member Ahsumtoy's Avatar
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    I had always used copper gaskets, but decided to use cometics on my 565 blown alcohol engine. They did not seal and I had water everywhere. I put in Titan ICS as I didn't have room between the 1/2" head studs and a 4.600 bore for a conventional o-ring and groove. So far they have worked great.

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    i'm back!! 1QuickCP's Avatar
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    thats good to hear....I was going to try mls but there is a lot of stuff out there about the problem u mention. I hate water leaks..

    When I ran a KB I panographed grooves forrubber o rings around all water passages in the block and heads, ran copper with wire and groove..that was a GREAT system..super glue the rubber o ring material into the grooves on both block and heads. bam no leaks and poping heads on and off were a breeze

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    Senior Member s2k1's Avatar
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    Whenever I run across a Cometic MLS that leaks, whether it be a Honda or a Chevy, it is usually because the head and deck are not smooth enough.
    Chris @ Benchmark Performance

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    mo balls than $cents$ IMPATIENT 1's Avatar
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    ics titan headgaskets with the ss combustion chamber firewire no need for orings or receiver grooves. if the heads lift, it shoves the wire further into the headgasket and makes em seal even tighter, badass gaskets!!

    Dare to be different, if it turns out great you can claim you planned it that way.

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    Bostick Racing Engines six-oh-nine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by s2k1 View Post
    Whenever I run across a Cometic MLS that leaks, whether it be a Honda or a Chevy, it is usually because the head and deck are not smooth enough.
    x2

    Yup... you got to get the surface smooth or you're gonna have nothing but trouble... learned this the hard way. I put a variable speed controller on my Storm 85B Blockmaster to slow the transverse to get a smooth enough finish... wet surfacers work also.

    I've had good luck with both in a multitude of applications... both are good products and it just boils down to which flavour you like more.
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    Distinguished Member David 519's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IMPATIENT 1 View Post
    ics titan headgaskets with the ss combustion chamber firewire no need for orings or receiver grooves. if the heads lift, it shoves the wire further into the headgasket and makes em seal even tighter, badass gaskets!!
    FWIW, +1
    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    ....... David 519 is 100% correct........

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    steelcomp was here
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    Quote Originally Posted by s2k1 View Post
    Whenever I run across a Cometic MLS that leaks, whether it be a Honda or a Chevy, it is usually because the head and deck are not smooth enough.
    There's another common reason for Cometic failure, even when the surface is smooth enough. When a rotary broach is used for surfacing, the wheel is usually tipped slightly to eliminate any back dragging of the cutter. If the head is tipped more than needed, the cut can actually be concave, not flat. This ain't gonna fly with Cometics. They have almost no compressibility to conform to an irregular shape or surface finish. That's why for most applications, a composite gasket is a better choice.
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    i'm back!! 1QuickCP's Avatar
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    thnks for all the info...im thinking now my standard flatout rubber coated copper with good old o rings and reciever grooves....a pain but at least ill have zero issues ....

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    AKA Blownjet 468 Blowncat 509's Avatar
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    Have you really seen that many Cometics fail? reason I'm asking is I'm
    building a motor for a friend/customer that we kinda pieced together from
    a bunch of oddball parts we had laying around....
    4-bolt 4.310 block, decked, squared, line honed, torque plates,etc,etc
    GM steel 4.00 crank, crossdrilled, ground 10/10 with a nice fillet radius,
    (here's where it gets weird, but I know it's gonna work)
    6.535 H-beams, SRP flattops, originally intended for a 4.25 stroke, in a tall deck block! Thats the reason for the .070 thick Cometics I ordered. pistons are out of the hole about .025 , that and accounting for the
    proper quench, I'm hoping it's gonna work out. anyone ever build anything
    like this?

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    Senior Member Factory1's Avatar
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    I had a set of Cometics fail, same thing, water leaks. Was kinda pricey as it was supposed to be a dyno session. 1 1/2 revolutions and locked up with a hydrauliced cylinder. Luckily my dyno operator had the coil wire off and was trying to build oil pressure before firing. $500 set up time for the dyno. Disassembled motor, o-ringed block, receiver groove heads, copper head gaskets, problem solved. You can get copper head gaskets in lots of thicknesses to set your clearances right. When you look at the Cometics, look at the water passages. Mine had raised embossments that were triangles with the embossments dying out to nothing at the corners where they meet. Seemed like a great place for the water to escape to me. But what the hell, I'm just a dumb a$$ construction worker, not an engineer. I'm sure there are lots of pro engine builders that have great luck with them and swear by them. As for me I'll stick with the old school tried and trued technology. Good luck with whatever way you decide to go, let us know how it turns out, F1~

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    Bostick Racing Engines six-oh-nine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelcomp View Post
    There's another common reason for Cometic failure, even when the surface is smooth enough. When a rotary broach is used for surfacing, the wheel is usually tipped slightly to eliminate any back dragging of the cutter. If the head is tipped more than needed, the cut can actually be concave, not flat. This ain't gonna fly with Cometics. They have almost no compressibility to conform to an irregular shape or surface finish. That's why for most applications, a composite gasket is a better choice.
    You referring to one of those old table top looking broaches Winnona... Storm... and a few others made? Or a Blockmaster type? On the Blockmaster the "tip" of the head is part of the adjustment procedure when setting up the machine... there are norms and maximum values of the amount... if you adhear to the proper adjustment... you'll never notice any variation on the deck surface of a block or head. You can make the same argument about folks that have the wet grinders who don't let the part "spark out" and finish with a heavy cut where the pressure from the grinding head peaks between cylinders where there is greater surface area... and dips into cylinders or combustion areas where there is less surface area. Factory finishes typify this scenario in some degree or another.

    Simply put... cometics don't like half-assed workmanship when it comes to surface finish... whether it be finish roughness or flatness... there is no forgiveness like a plain old composite gasket or copper with silicone sealer.
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    Senior Member Ahsumtoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by six-oh-nine View Post
    Simply put... cometics don't like half-assed workmanship when it comes to surface finish...
    I'm having trouble buying into the surface finish causing my problems with the cometics. I had a new Keith Black aluminum block and new Dart heads. Took them to Paul Pfaff to have the block decked and the heads surfaced to get the chamber cc's that I wanted. Pfaff provided the cometics so he knew what gaskets I was going to use, in fact he recommended them. He builds lots of offshore race engines, as well as regular hot rod deals, and uses cometics. So I know he knows what surface finish works, and his workmanship is far from "half-assed". However, I had major water leaks. In my case, 4.600 bore and .500 studs, there was very little space between the studs and the bore so the gaskets were narrow. Also, blown alcohol. I think cometics work in the right application, but not so good out of there element. In the end, I'm a believer in use what you know works. In my case it was the ICS Titans.
    Last edited by Ahsumtoy; 09-22-2009 at 05:15 AM.

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    gn7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Factory1 View Post
    I had a set of Cometics fail, same thing, water leaks. Was kinda pricey as it was supposed to be a dyno session. 1 1/2 revolutions and locked up with a hydrauliced cylinder. Luckily my dyno operator had the coil wire off and was trying to build oil pressure before firing.~
    All these problems with Cometic gsakets. GM must have their head up their ass for picking that gasket for the 640 HP LS9.
    If you couldn't get a cometic to seal with out even firing the motor, maybe the problem wasn't with the gasket. How did O-ringing the block help with your water leak. If I was you, I would stay way far away from those gaskets in the future



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    Last edited by gn7; 09-22-2009 at 07:10 AM.

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