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I'm thinking of a new product...

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    Senior Member VDRIVERACING's Avatar
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    Default I'm thinking of a new product...

    I'm thinking of a device that would rotate an engine to exact degrees for tuning and valve adjustments. This device would have a removable coupling to attach to the crank or flywheel, and an electronic system would roll the engine over to specified targets.

    It would have the capability to precisely determine #1 top dead center, so it would "zero". The use of electronic controls would regulate an electric motor to turn the engine to the exact degree.

    I have a bunch of ideas on different ways to accomplish this. What do you guys think?

    Has this been done? Is it available? What challenges would it face? What features should be incorporated?

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    Spiral out MikeF's Avatar
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    You'd have to pull those E3 plugs from it first so it would turn over easier.

    This might work, but you would need some type of stepper motor and some type of sensor that would recognize the TDC position.

    OnCarBrakeLathe

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    Senior Member VDRIVERACING's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeF View Post
    You'd have to pull those E3 plugs from it first so it would turn over easier.

    This might work, but you would need some type of stepper motor and some type of sensor that would recognize the TDC position.

    OnCarBrakeLathe
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    Senior Member Camoman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VDRIVERACING View Post
    I'm thinking of a device that would rotate an engine to exact degrees for tuning and valve adjustments. This device would have a removable coupling to attach to the crank or flywheel, and an electronic system would roll the engine over to specified targets.

    It would have the capability to precisely determine #1 top dead center, so it would "zero". The use of electronic controls would regulate an electric motor to turn the engine to the exact degree.

    I have a bunch of ideas on different ways to accomplish this. What do you guys think?

    Has this been done? Is it available? What challenges would it face? What features should be incorporated?
    That would be very nice if it was accurate on the TDC
    There's doing it easy,or there's doing it better

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    Highaboosta Unchained's Avatar
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    I was thinking of a similar thing.
    With the alternator driven off the end of the crank I can't turn the engine over easily.
    What I came up with that seemed easy to make and I thought would work good was a piece of tube welded to a bracket that bolted to the bottom of the block just past the edge of the flexplate ring gear.
    I intended on having the ID of the tube match the OD of a starter pinion gear.
    On the end of the gear would be welded a piece of shaft about 3" long that also matched the OD of the pinion gear. On the end of the shaft you have a hex and that's where you connect your air ratchet. Slide the pinion gear shaft into the tube and that's how to drive the ring gear.
    I think that would turn it over and then I would just watch the degrees on the balancer to get to the point where I wanted to adjust the valves.

    When your done you just slide the pinion gear shaft out of the tube, throw it in the toolbox, and leave the bracket with the tube on the engine.

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    northern member Canuc's Avatar
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    Unchained I like your idea , should work great on my boat . Have some room at the flywheel but have a guard over the balancer on the front which is a bit of a PITA to take off and put on when in a hurry.
    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 If your ran a cammer your odds of finishing WERE ZERO.

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    Senior Member VDRIVERACING's Avatar
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    I am fortunate enough to have a roots blower, so I can put a ratchet extension in the top pully and turn it over.

    I wanted to take this further, using modern electronics to increase the accuracy and ease. Punch in a position. Boom, it's there.

    An earlier post described the proper type of electric motor (stepper motor) that is designed for precise rotational control. Now we need to determine where and how to attach it, and how it can find TDC.

    For TDC I was thinking of a probe that would screw into #1 spark plug hole. After two revolutions, it would be able to sense, and record, compression TDC. From here, the electronics would have a reference point to position the crank and valves at any position desired.

    keep it going...

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    Would something like an encoder work for tracking locations in the revolutions! Attach it to the steper motor and read pulses for locations! This would be different for each brand of block and would be slightly different for each motor. WT


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    gn7
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    Modern observatory telescopes use bar graphs and lasers, like the check out stands, to control DC stepper motors. Bill if you can build one of these with the IC-EO method and keep the price under 29.95, I'll take 2



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    Senior Member VDRIVERACING's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    Modern observatory telescopes use bar graphs and lasers, like the check out stands, to control DC stepper motors. Bill if you can build one of these with the IC-EO method and keep the price under 29.95, I'll take 2
    Hmmm, how about a set of steak knives with your order?

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    Senior Member Ronboats's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VDRIVERACING View Post
    I am fortunate enough to have a roots blower, so I can put a ratchet extension in the top pully and turn it over.

    I wanted to take this further, using modern electronics to increase the accuracy and ease. Punch in a position. Boom, it's there.

    An earlier post described the proper type of electric motor (stepper motor) that is designed for precise rotational control. Now we need to determine where and how to attach it, and how it can find TDC.

    For TDC I was thinking of a probe that would screw into #1 spark plug hole. After two revolutions, it would be able to sense, and record, compression TDC. From here, the electronics would have a reference point to position the crank and valves at any position desired.

    keep it going...
    What if you had a degree wheel you could mount to the balencer with holes all the way around it in which to put a movable pin that would trip a limiting switch when the engine reaches the desired degree? You could just connect the power for the electric motor to your starter. It will stop when it reaches the degree you have chosen. I think this would be close enough for valve adjustments, and simple and cheap to try. As far as finding top dead on # 1, the old finger in the plug hole works every time, then look at your timing marks to get it exacty on top dead. Kinda low tech, but It could be a handy easy to use tool.And cheap.

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    Senior Member VDRIVERACING's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronboats View Post
    What if you had a degree wheel you could mount to the balencer with holes all the way around it in which to put a movable pin that would trip a limiting switch when the engine reaches the desired degree? You could just connect the power for the electric motor to your starter. It will stop when it reaches the degree you have chosen. I think this would be close enough for valve adjustments, and simple and cheap to try. As far as finding top dead on # 1, the old finger in the plug hole works every time, then look at your timing marks to get it exacty on top dead. Kinda low tech, but It could be a handy easy to use tool.And cheap.
    I'm thinking with all this computer techno-shit, programmable CNC etc., that we should be able to come up with a device that is dead on accurate, AND still inexpensive. You know, snap it on, zero the device, punch in the desired rotation, and VOILA! From there, every step of rotation-based measurements are quick, easy, and dead on.


    Now... stepper motor. Where do we attach it. TDC sensor - is there something on the shelf?

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    Quote Originally Posted by VDRIVERACING View Post
    I'm thinking with all this computer techno-shit, programmable CNC etc., that we should be able to come up with a device that is dead on accurate, AND still inexpensive. You know, snap it on, zero the device, punch in the desired rotation, and VOILA! From there, every step of rotation-based measurements are quick, easy, and dead on.


    Now... stepper motor. Where do we attach it. TDC sensor - is there something on the shelf?
    Pull the starter and attach the stepper motor there.

  16. #14
    Senior Member VDRIVERACING's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronboats View Post
    Pull the starter and attach the stepper motor there.

    or..... is it possible to construct a motor that could double as a starter and still have the control of a stepper? Then it's a matter of snapping on the electronics, and the TDC sensor!

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