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Useful info from the other thread:

  1. #1
    Resident Ford Nut Sleeper CP's Avatar
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    Default Useful info from the other thread:

    This was posted by GN-7 from a magazine article, it made me think:

    http://www.superchevy.com/technical/...omparison.html

    Nov. 2009 Drag Racer ran back to back dyno test changing pans, trays, e.vac, vacuum pumps, and oil pumps. Here's the results. All Moroso products.


    Street-strip pan with flat tray, Std volume pump base line...........935 HP
    Exhaust type Pan-E-Vac............................................... ........964 HP +29
    Hi volume oil pump.............................................. ..................953 HP -11
    Race pan with curved louvered tray and kickout.........................993 HP +40
    Vacuum pump 3 vane(over Pan-E-Vac)....................................1018HP +25
    vacuum pump 4 vane.............................................. ..............1024HP +6
    Deeper sump race pan and shrouded oil pump to close off tray.....1025HP+1
    Alumn pan with curved tray, & more louvers..............................1027HP+2

    If the exhaust Pan evac is worth 29 hp and a kick-out pan is worth 40 hp I'll have my 1,000 hp 565" single carb Ford next year.

    It would have been cool to have tested an adjustable cam belt drive and see what the engine would do from 4* advanced to 4* retard at 2*increments.

    A Pan evac at 29 hp ? That seems a bit high

    I looked for that magazine, but couldn't find it anywhere.

    Sleeper CP

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  3. #2
    gn7
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    Yeah, I thought the same thing when I read it. But remember, this thing had a 4.375 stroke in a narrow ass BBC crankcase. The Ford won't gain as much, nor will a 4.00" stroke chevy. The longer the stroke, the higher the RPM, and the smaller the crankcase, the more you will gain.The test was strictly oil control test, not cam timing, rocker ratios, etc. More amazing to me was the 25hp gain over a Vac U Pan. 31hp with a 4 vane. Also, the 29HP e vac gain was over two valve cover breathers. As a example, there was a GN in the Blue Water 300 the used 40+ quarts of oil because he had no evac, and the breathers weren't getting the job done. It blew oil from every gasket in the motor and even broke a valve cover bolt it was building so much crank pressure. In a case like that, I can believe the e vac is worth an easy 29 HP. And I believe the test was worst case vs the E Vac. Yeah Drag Racer, and Drag Racing are not the easiest mags to find. But they seem to have some pretty good tech articles.



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    Last edited by gn7; 11-02-2009 at 11:11 AM.

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    GM little and large block have inheriently small crankcases. The SBC was designed for a max of 3.75 and the BBC was for 4.00". The popularity of the 383 SBC engine has come around over the last 15 or so years as the chinese cranks came it. Windage issues are not as common in these builds using stock GM type oil pans. The BBC however with the introduction of the 4.25" and 4.375" is not the same story. GM never intended for this engine to run that much stroke with a stock oil pan. Yes some have gotten away with it but many haven't. We have seen some nice gains with the Stef's kickout pans on these GM BBC and GN7 is correct your not going to see the same gains in a Ford just because for has more area as a stock pan.
    Chris Straub
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  6. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleeper CP View Post
    This was posted by GN-7 from a magazine article, it made me think:

    http://www.superchevy.com/technical/...omparison.html

    Nov. 2009 Drag Racer ran back to back dyno test changing pans, trays, e.vac, vacuum pumps, and oil pumps. Here's the results. All Moroso products.


    Street-strip pan with flat tray, Std volume pump base line...........935 HP
    Exhaust type Pan-E-Vac............................................... ........964 HP +29
    Hi volume oil pump.............................................. ..................953 HP -11
    Race pan with curved louvered tray and kickout.........................993 HP +40
    Vacuum pump 3 vane(over Pan-E-Vac)....................................1018HP +25
    vacuum pump 4 vane.............................................. ..............1024HP +6
    Deeper sump race pan and shrouded oil pump to close off tray.....1025HP+1
    Alumn pan with curved tray, & more louvers..............................1027HP+2

    If the exhaust Pan evac is worth 29 hp and a kick-out pan is worth 40 hp I'll have my 1,000 hp 565" single carb Ford next year.

    It would have been cool to have tested an adjustable cam belt drive and see what the engine would do from 4* advanced to 4* retard at 2*increments.

    A Pan evac at 29 hp ? That seems a bit high

    I looked for that magazine, but couldn't find it anywhere.

    Sleeper CP

    Big Inch Ford Lover.
    jon, what this really looks like to me is this:

    Street-strip pan with flat tray, Std volume pump base line......935 HP
    Hi volume oil pump.............................................. ........935 HP -11
    924 HP
    Race pan with curved louvered tray and kickout........+40 HP =964 HP
    Vacuum pump 3 vane(over Pan-E-Vac).................. +25 HP = 989 HP

    i dont' see how you can add an exhaust pan evac gain to a vacuum pump gain - you can't run them both at the same time, and a 3-vane will not give you 54hp...
    you already added the superwhammodyne oil pump; have you dynoed with it yet to see if you gained/lost anything???

  7. #5
    gn7
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    Quote Originally Posted by cstraub View Post
    GN7 is correct your not going to see the same gains in a Ford .
    You see that Sleeper. Chris agrees with me, there is nothing to be gained by running aFORD.



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  8. #6
    gn7
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    Quote Originally Posted by bp298 View Post
    jon, what this really looks like to me is this:

    Street-strip pan with flat tray, Std volume pump base line......935 HP
    Hi volume oil pump.............................................. ........935 HP -11
    924 HP
    Race pan with curved louvered tray and kickout........+40 HP =964 HP
    Vacuum pump 3 vane(over Pan-E-Vac).................. +25 HP = 989 HP

    i dont' see how you can add an exhaust pan evac gain to a vacuum pump gain - you can't run them both at the same time, and a 3-vane will not give you 54hp...
    you already added the superwhammodyne oil pump; have you dynoed with it yet to see if you gained/lost anything???
    Thats the crazy part of the article. Each increase is over the test before it. So the 3 vane was 25HP MORE than the E-vac. And the 4 vane was 6 more than the 3 vane. They also test the mondo PRO MOD pump and it lost HP to the 4 vane. So in this case the vacuum pump was worth 54 HP. The point was that well thought out wet sumps are approaching dry sump numbers.



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  9. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    Thats the crazy part of the article. Each increase is over the test before it. So the 3 vane was 25HP MORE than the E-vac. And the 4 vane was 6 more than the 3 vane. They also test the mondo PRO MOD pump and it lost HP to the 4 vane. So in this case the vacuum pump was worth 54 HP. The point was that well thought out wet sumps are approaching dry sump numbers.
    i have no doubt at all that wetsump can be very close to drysump. however - i have a very difficult time believing 54hp out of a 3vane by itself. anyone "expecting" to get that by simply adding a 3vane would most likely be very disappointed. i was very happy to pick up 25ish when we added mine... and from everyone i've talked to (dog, cats, quail, etc.) 25ish is about the norm. of course, if you build the engine with the intention of running the pump, you can make more, but that's not the same thing as just adding the pump...

  10. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by bp298 View Post
    jon, what this really looks like to me is this:

    Street-strip pan with flat tray, Std volume pump base line......935 HP
    Hi volume oil pump.............................................. ........935 HP -11
    924 HP
    Race pan with curved louvered tray and kickout........+40 HP =964 HP
    Vacuum pump 3 vane(over Pan-E-Vac).................. +25 HP = 989 HP

    i dont' see how you can add an exhaust pan evac gain to a vacuum pump gain - you can't run them both at the same time, and a 3-vane will not give you 54hp...
    you already added the superwhammodyne oil pump; have you dynoed with it yet to see if you gained/lost anything???
    Bob,

    I thought it was just me with the math on that engine 54 hp from a Vac-pump ? I think someone was working on selling Moroso products.

    No I didn't dyno the engine after the last work, she's bit tired on the bore and ring seal. The dyno will have to wait until after new pistons and rings, but now I know I'm not going to get all that "free" horsepower. Shoot

    Damn magazine articles anyway.

    S CP

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    Going fast is only half the fun ... what you make go
    fast is the other half.
    " A Government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take away everything you have"

  11. #9
    gn7
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    I agree, it seems a little biased, but they weren't shy about saying the mondo pumplost power, or the HV oil pumplosing 11 ponies. And the test makes the street strip pan look like a major loser. So really, no matter how you slice it, it makes one thing look real good, while making the replace part look really bad. As for the pump and evac, have to believe this is compared to worse case with stock breather, in which case can create alot of pressure on a 7200 rpm 565



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  12. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleeper CP View Post
    Bob,

    I thought it was just me with the math on that engine 54 hp from a Vac-pump ? I think someone was working on selling Moroso products.

    No I didn't dyno the engine after the last work, she's bit tired on the bore and ring seal. The dyno will have to wait until after new pistons and rings, but now I know I'm not going to get all that "free" horsepower. Shoot

    Damn magazine articles anyway.

    S CP
    "free" hp??? what, you gotta hp tree growin right next to that money tree???
    jon, even 25-30 is worth it. if you luck out and get one out of the 54hp batch, so much the better... just remember that the collection can will collect residue that has to be drained... and those pumps do require maintenance from time to time...

    Quote Originally Posted by gn7
    I agree, it seems a little biased, but they weren't shy about saying the mondo pumplost power, or the HV oil pumplosing 11 ponies. And the test makes the street strip pan look like a major loser. So really, no matter how you slice it, it makes one thing look real good, while making the replace part look really bad. As for the pump and evac, have to believe this is compared to worse case with stock breather, in which case can create alot of pressure on a 7200 rpm 565
    i'd guess it would depend what all these new parts were being compared to. was that hv oil pump taken apart, blueprinted??? i can understand a bigger pump requiring more power to turn, but is 11 a realistic number?? i have no idea.
    u could be right about the pump/evac test. with the huge stroke, and perhaps a little more oil in the pan than necessary, could also make a bigger difference. it would seem that with the evac/pump hp increase, something else was going on...
    but either the pan evac or pump is going to add -something-. not running either is kind of leaving available hp under the table...

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