Hey Allen or somebody else that understands bolts
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Hey Allen or somebody else that understands bolts

  1. #1
    Half a bubble off jrork's Avatar
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    Default Hey Allen or somebody else that understands bolts

    I've search Allens website and can't find it and am curious if maybe it's not available.

    Can you get Stainless socket head bolts in grades comparable to the black oxide ones? In particular I'm looking to swap out the blower pulley bolts.

    Yah, I know & but I still would like to do it.

    Thanks guys........john

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    Senior Member Boat 405's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrork View Post
    I've search Allens website and can't find it and am curious if maybe it's not available.

    Can you get Stainless socket head bolts in grades comparable to the black oxide ones? In particular I'm looking to swap out the blower pulley bolts.

    Yah, I know & but I still would like to do it.

    Thanks guys........john
    Most 304 and 316 ss bolts are 70,000 psi tensile strength. Black Oxide bolts can go up to 180,000 psi. You should be able to find a 450 grade stainless bolt but I'm not sure if it will be in a socket head. How about a 12pt cap screw?

    They come in 170,000 psi. Most of them are made by ARP. Not cheap but they work well.

    What size are you looking for?
    Boat 405.

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    Senior Member Ahsumtoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by widowmaker View Post
    Most 304 and 316 ss bolts are 70,000 psi tensile strength. Black Oxide bolts can go up to 180,000 psi. You should be able to find a 450 grade stainless bolt but I'm not sure if it will be in a socket head. How about a 12pt cap screw?

    They come in 170,000 psi. Most of them are made by ARP. Not cheap but they work well.

    What size are you looking for?
    Widowmaker, I have 12 point arp 7/16 on my pto. When I went to torque them they were stretching at 65-70 ft lbs. Are you sure they are 170,000 psi? I'm kind of worried to use them.

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    Bostick Racing Engines six-oh-nine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrork View Post
    I've search Allens website and can't find it and am curious if maybe it's not available.

    Can you get Stainless socket head bolts in grades comparable to the black oxide ones? In particular I'm looking to swap out the blower pulley bolts.

    Yah, I know & but I still would like to do it.

    Thanks guys........john
    Well... this may not be the answer you're looking for... but if you're worried about strength... you could always drill the pulley and hub for a dowel pin or two... press fit on the hub and slip on the pulley... that would eliminate the shear issue with the bolts.

    Just an idea...
    Last edited by six-oh-nine; 11-21-2009 at 04:57 PM.
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    steelcomp was here
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahsumtoy View Post
    Widowmaker, I have 12 point arp 7/16 on my pto. When I went to torque them they were stretching at 65-70 ft lbs. Are you sure they are 170,000 psi? I'm kind of worried to use them.
    You should not be using stainless hardware on your PTO. That's grade 8 territory, and most of it will require a shouldered bolt to help with loction.
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  8. #6
    steelcomp was here
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrork View Post
    I've search Allens website and can't find it and am curious if maybe it's not available.

    Can you get Stainless socket head bolts in grades comparable to the black oxide ones? In particular I'm looking to swap out the blower pulley bolts.

    Yah, I know & but I still would like to do it.

    Thanks guys........john
    The ARP stainaless is plenty strong for blower pulleys, in fact, most standard 316 stainless hardware should be.
    If God is your co-pilot, change seats!
    Acts 2:38, the perfect answer to the perfect question.

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    Senior Member Boat 405's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahsumtoy View Post
    Widowmaker, I have 12 point arp 7/16 on my pto. When I went to torque them they were stretching at 65-70 ft lbs. Are you sure they are 170,000 psi? I'm kind of worried to use them.

    Yes the ARP 450 stainless series is rated at 170,000psi. Stretching at 65-70 ft/lbs?? I'd hope not. What size fastener? 3/8 or 7/16?

    The chart below shows a good amount of info. Typical grade 8 is still sub par to many other materials out there.
    Last edited by Boat 405; 11-21-2009 at 01:15 PM.
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  10. #8
    Senior Member Boat 405's Avatar
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    Here this should help
    http://www.centuryperformance.com/ar...e-spg-187.html

    Stainless Steel

    Ideally suited for many automotive and marine applications because stainless is tolerant of heat and virtually impervious to rust and corrosion. ARP® "Stainless 300" is specially alloyed for extra durability. It's specially polished using a proprietary process to produce a beautiful finish.

    8740 Chrome Moly

    Until the development of today's modern alloys, chrome moly was popularly considered a high strength material. Now viewed as only moderate strength, 8740 chrome moly is seen as a good tough steel, with adequate fatigue properties for most racing applications, but only if the threads are rolled after the heat treatment. (A standard ARP® practice). Typically, chrome moly is classified as a quench and temper steel that can be heat treated to deliver tensile strengths between 180,000-210,000 psi.

    ARP2000

    An Exclusive "Hybrid-Alloy" developed to deliver superior strength and better fatigue properties. While 8740 and ARP® 2000 share similar characteristics, ARP® 2000 is capable of achieving clamp loads in the 215,000-220,000 psi range. ARP® 2000 is used widely in short track and drag racing as an upgrade from 8740 chrome moly in both steel and aluminum connecting rods. In this strength level, stress corrosion and hydrogen embrittlement are typically not a problem, provided care is taken during installation.

    L19

    This is a premium steel that is processed to deliver superior strength and fatigue properties. L19 is a very high strength material compared to 8740 or ARP® 2000, and is capable of delivering clamp loads in the 230,000-260,000 psi range. It is primarily used in short track and drag racing applications where inertia loads exceed the clamping capability of ARP® 2000. Like most high strength, quench and temper steels, L19 requires special care during manufacturing to avoid hydrogen embrittlement. This material is easily contaminated and subject to stress corrosion. It must be kept well oiled and not exposed to moisture.

    AERMET 100

    With a typical tensile strength of 280,000 psi, Aermet 100 is a new martensitic super-alloy that is stronger and less expensive that the super-alloy austenitic materials that follow. Because Aermet 100 is capable of achieving incredibly high clamping loads, it is ideal for short but extreme environments like Top Fuel, Funny Car, and some short track applications. Although Aermet 100 is a maraging steel that is far superior to the other high strength steels in it's resistance to stress corrosion, it must be kept well oiled and not exposed to moisture.

    INCONEL 718

    This is a nickel based material that is in the high temperature, super-alloy class, and is found to be equally suitable in lower temperature applications. This material delivers tensile strengths into the 220,000 psi range and exhibits improved fatigue properties. Best of all, Inconel 718 is completely immune to hydrogen embrittlement and corrosion.

    ARP® 3.5 (AMS5844)

    While similar to Inconel 718, these super-alloys are found in many jet engines and aerospace applications where heat and stress attack the life of critical components. The high cobalt content of this alloy, while expensive delivers a material with superior fatigue characteristics and a tensile strength in the 270,000 psi range. The immunity to hydrogen embrittlement and corrosion of these materials a significant design consideration. These materials are primarily used in connecting rods where extremely high loads, high RPM, and endurance are important factors, such as: Formula 1, Winston Cup, and CART applications.

    CUSTOM AGE 625+

    This newly formulated super-alloy demonstrates superior fatigue cycle life, tensile strength, and toughness. With complete resistance to atmospheric corrosion and oxidation it sees many uses. ARP® is the first to develop manufacturing and testing processes for fasteners with Custom Age 625+. Best of all, it is less expensive, and expected to soon replace MP-35 as the material of choice in the high strength, super-alloy field. Typical tensile strength is 260,000 psi.
    Last edited by Boat 405; 11-21-2009 at 01:14 PM.
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    Senior Member Ahsumtoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by widowmaker View Post
    What size fastener? 3/8 or 7/16?
    7/16"x1 1/2".... Haven't used them. I did try to torque them, when I got to 65 ft lbs you could feel them stretching.

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    steelcomp was here
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    Quote Originally Posted by widowmaker View Post
    Yes the ARP 450 stainless series is rated at 170,000psi. Stretching at 65-70 ft/lbs?? I'd hope not. What size fastener? 3/8 or 7/16?

    The chart below shows a good amount of info. Typical grade 8 is still sub par to many other materials out there.
    Sub par? Could you explain that?
    If God is your co-pilot, change seats!
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  13. #11
    steelcomp was here
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    Quote Originally Posted by widowmaker View Post
    Here this should help
    http://www.centuryperformance.com/ar...e-spg-187.html

    Stainless Steel

    Ideally suited for many automotive and marine applications because stainless is tolerant of heat and virtually impervious to rust and corrosion. ARP® "Stainless 300" is specially alloyed for extra durability. It's specially polished using a proprietary process to produce a beautiful finish.

    8740 Chrome Moly

    Until the development of today's modern alloys, chrome moly was popularly considered a high strength material. Now viewed as only moderate strength, 8740 chrome moly is seen as a good tough steel, with adequate fatigue properties for most racing applications, but only if the threads are rolled after the heat treatment. (A standard ARP® practice). Typically, chrome moly is classified as a quench and temper steel that can be heat treated to deliver tensile strengths between 180,000-210,000 psi.

    ARP2000

    An Exclusive "Hybrid-Alloy" developed to deliver superior strength and better fatigue properties. While 8740 and ARP® 2000 share similar characteristics, ARP® 2000 is capable of achieving clamp loads in the 215,000-220,000 psi range. ARP® 2000 is used widely in short track and drag racing as an upgrade from 8740 chrome moly in both steel and aluminum connecting rods. In this strength level, stress corrosion and hydrogen embrittlement are typically not a problem, provided care is taken during installation.

    L19

    This is a premium steel that is processed to deliver superior strength and fatigue properties. L19 is a very high strength material compared to 8740 or ARP® 2000, and is capable of delivering clamp loads in the 230,000-260,000 psi range. It is primarily used in short track and drag racing applications where inertia loads exceed the clamping capability of ARP® 2000. Like most high strength, quench and temper steels, L19 requires special care during manufacturing to avoid hydrogen embrittlement. This material is easily contaminated and subject to stress corrosion. It must be kept well oiled and not exposed to moisture.

    AERMET 100

    With a typical tensile strength of 280,000 psi, Aermet 100 is a new martensitic super-alloy that is stronger and less expensive that the super-alloy austenitic materials that follow. Because Aermet 100 is capable of achieving incredibly high clamping loads, it is ideal for short but extreme environments like Top Fuel, Funny Car, and some short track applications. Although Aermet 100 is a maraging steel that is far superior to the other high strength steels in it's resistance to stress corrosion, it must be kept well oiled and not exposed to moisture.

    INCONEL 718

    This is a nickel based material that is in the high temperature, super-alloy class, and is found to be equally suitable in lower temperature applications. This material delivers tensile strengths into the 220,000 psi range and exhibits improved fatigue properties. Best of all, Inconel 718 is completely immune to hydrogen embrittlement and corrosion.

    ARP® 3.5 (AMS5844)

    While similar to Inconel 718, these super-alloys are found in many jet engines and aerospace applications where heat and stress attack the life of critical components. The high cobalt content of this alloy, while expensive delivers a material with superior fatigue characteristics and a tensile strength in the 270,000 psi range. The immunity to hydrogen embrittlement and corrosion of these materials a significant design consideration. These materials are primarily used in connecting rods where extremely high loads, high RPM, and endurance are important factors, such as: Formula 1, Winston Cup, and CART applications.

    CUSTOM AGE 625+

    This newly formulated super-alloy demonstrates superior fatigue cycle life, tensile strength, and toughness. With complete resistance to atmospheric corrosion and oxidation it sees many uses. ARP® is the first to develop manufacturing and testing processes for fasteners with Custom Age 625+. Best of all, it is less expensive, and expected to soon replace MP-35 as the material of choice in the high strength, super-alloy field. Typical tensile strength is 260,000 psi.
    This is NOT a good way to advise eomeone on the proper hardware to use for blower pulleys or drive line PTO's.
    If God is your co-pilot, change seats!
    Acts 2:38, the perfect answer to the perfect question.

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    steelcomp was here
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahsumtoy View Post
    7/16"x1 1/2".... Haven't used them. I did try to torque them, when I got to 65 ft lbs you could feel them stretching.
    Do you know what the proper torque is for these bolts? Were the threads lubed or dry? Was this into a threaded hole or with a nut and washer? What was the material the bolt was threaded in to (if a threaded hole)?
    If God is your co-pilot, change seats!
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    Senior Member Boat 405's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelcomp View Post
    This is NOT a good way to advise eomeone on the proper hardware to use for blower pulleys or drive line PTO's.
    Easy Scott, just showing the differences in fasteners. I didn't say what he should or shouldn't use. Just posting info that pertains to what I would call good quality fasteners.
    Boat 405.

  16. #14
    Senior Member Boat 405's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelcomp View Post
    Sub par? Could you explain that?
    Uh, yeah, grade 8 bolt 170,000. Other materials out there are stronger and better. Thats all.
    Boat 405.

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