Big Block Stroked Mopar (Cam Help)
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Big Block Stroked Mopar (Cam Help)

  1. #1
    Junior Member istandalone's Avatar
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    Default Big Block Stroked Mopar (Cam Help)

    400 block, bored to 4.382
    440 Source 400-451 Stroker Kit
    Iron race heads Big time Ported!!!
    2.14 1.81 manley race valves, 10 deg titanium retainers
    Harland sharp rockers
    Windage tray
    ARP main studs
    ARP head studs
    CAT fluidampr copy.
    Complete ICE ignition Setup
    2x625CFM mech Holleys on a weiand tunnelram



    If you need any more info please ask Cams I have are
    Hyd comp cams .507/.510 240/246 duration
    Herbert custom grind - solid roller .606 lift, 246 duration on a 110 LC
    Boats Name "Glory Hull" Same boat my brother died in 3 years ago 1974 Sidewinder (took awhile to find one), undergoing FULL Deck off restoration back to his original Specs...With a Few Upgrades...

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  3. #2
    www.highflowdynamics.com LakesOnly's Avatar
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    Cool

    I won't pick your combination apart since we all have different approaches (most of which are perfectly fine), but I must speak up about the CAT fluid damper for two reasons: 1) CAT, and, 2) fluid damper.

    1) A lot of CAT parts, specifically the ones with moving parts or which require some sort of assembly at the factory (such as a balancer or waterpump or rocker arms) don't seem to endure high performance applications. Today, I think that their solid parts (main caps, connecting rods, etc) are fine in many applications provided that they are fully measured and inspected prior to use.

    2) A lot of aftermarket stroker kit companies will not warrant their broken crakshaft once they learn that you used a fluid damper. The warranty is automatically VOID. Here's is a quote from the SCAT website, for example:

    DAMPERS WITH MOVING INERTIA WEIGHTS
    A. Fluid, balls, springs, inertia rings with rubber O-Rings, etc. Can
    you balance a wheel on your race car if the tires are flat???? How
    can your rotating assembly be balanced if to quote one
    manufacturer, “These units (Dampers) should not be on the crank
    for balancing as the inertia weight may not be centered until the
    engine starts.” NEWS FLASH!!!! Centrifugal force will always take
    the inertia weight off center no matter what RPM. Your assembly
    is never balanced. TELL TALE SIGN!!!! Metal transferred on nose
    outside diameter and damper internal diameter . . . A fatigue crack
    starts. SNAP!!!! The crank breaks


    The above quote is not my personal opinion but is from the SCAT website, and they will point to it right before they show you the door.

    If I were you I'd ditch the damper. That is my opinion.

    LO
    Last edited by LakesOnly; 07-10-2010 at 12:01 PM.
    High Flow Dynamics
    Performance Components for the 429/460 Engine Family


    This post © Copyright 2007-2017 Paul Kane. No copying, linking, printing or otherwise without express written permission.

  4. #3
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    Why not run the roller if you have it?

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  6. #4
    Distinguished Member David 519's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LakesOnly View Post



    2) A lot of aftermarket stroker kit companies will not warrant their broken crakshaft once they learn that you used a fluid damper. The warranty is automatically VOID. Here's is a quote from the SCAT website, for example:

    DAMPERS WITH MOVING INERTIA WEIGHTS
    A. Fluid, balls, springs, inertia rings with rubber O-Rings, etc. Can
    you balance a wheel on your race car if the tires are flat???? How
    can your rotating assembly be balanced if to quote one
    manufacturer, “These units (Dampers) should not be on the crank
    for balancing as the inertia weight may not be centered until the
    engine starts.” NEWS FLASH!!!! Centrifugal force will always take
    the inertia weight off center no matter what RPM. Your assembly
    is never balanced. TELL TALE SIGN!!!! Metal transferred on nose
    outside diameter and damper internal diameter . . . A fatigue crack
    starts. SNAP!!!! The crank breaks


    The above quote is not my personal opinion but is from the SCAT website, and they will point to it right before they show you the door.

    If I were you I'd ditch the damper. That is my opinion.

    LO
    I'm sure you're right on Scat not warrentying a broken crankshaft, but that's more indicative of MOST Hi-Po mfg's assumption that every part they sell is perfect and if it breaks, it's because the customer is a dumbass (just went through this with a prop shaft ). I think it's funny that Scat quotes another mfg in their quote!! Might as well write something and quote yourself. Don't get me wrong, I like some of Scat's parts and I rank them above a bunch of the more common offshore mfgs. However, the engineering in the above quote is simply wrong.
    Metal transfer between the hub ID and crank snout OD is because the hub isn't tight enough. A damper has to fit TIGHT in order to dampen crankshaft torsional vibration (sometimes referred to as "harmonics"). This looseness won't lead to a fatique crack. If the balancer was seriously out of balance, then you could potentially bust the end off, but that's a seperate issue.
    Also, pretty much EVERYTHING they said about balancing is wrong except balancing components seperately. Finally, there are tens of thousands of fluid dampers in everything from heavy duty industrial applications to weekend bracket racers.... Used properly, a decent quality fluid damper is fine.
    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    ....... David 519 is 100% correct........

    Quote Originally Posted by fuelinmyveins82 View Post
    .....I think people forget that racing is supposed to fun. Losing shouldn't be discouraging it should motivate you work on your pile to make it faster.....

  7. #5
    www.highflowdynamics.com LakesOnly's Avatar
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    Cool

    That's all fine and dandy.

    Also, the parts will not be warranted with the use of the fluid damper, which is one of my points. The CAT components that are made of muiltiple pieces are still failing regularly out in the field, which is my other point.

    LO
    High Flow Dynamics
    Performance Components for the 429/460 Engine Family


    This post © Copyright 2007-2017 Paul Kane. No copying, linking, printing or otherwise without express written permission.

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    Senior Member 1fastmopar's Avatar
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    Whats the C.R.?

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    Junior Member istandalone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1fastmopar View Post
    Whats the C.R.?
    Will be about 10.2:1
    Boats Name "Glory Hull" Same boat my brother died in 3 years ago 1974 Sidewinder (took awhile to find one), undergoing FULL Deck off restoration back to his original Specs...With a Few Upgrades...

  10. #8
    Senior Member 1fastmopar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by istandalone View Post
    Will be about 10.2:1

    The .606 cam is the one I would run, whats the dur @ .050?the only thing I dont like about the second cam is the LSA Its a little tight a 112 would be much better!
    Last edited by 1fastmopar; 07-11-2010 at 09:13 AM.

  11. #9
    Junior Member istandalone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1fastmopar View Post
    The .606 cam is the one I would run, whats the dur @ .050?the only thing I dont like about the second cam is the LSA Its a little tight a 112 would be much better!
    I really droped the bomb on the second one sorry, here are the specs.

    Full Roller
    RPM Range 4000-7000
    Valve Timing 0.02
    Lobe Center Angle 108
    intake centerline 108
    Valve Lash intake 0.028 Exhaust 0.03
    Duration intake 306 Exhaust 306
    Duration @ .050 intake 275 Exhaust 275
    Valve Lift intake 0.625 Exhaust .625
    Lobe Life intake 0.416 Exhaust .416

    Valve timing @ 0.02" Lift

    Intake 45 BTDC (OPEN) 81 (CLOSE)
    Exhaust 81 BBDC (OPEN) 45 ATDC (CLOSE)
    Boats Name "Glory Hull" Same boat my brother died in 3 years ago 1974 Sidewinder (took awhile to find one), undergoing FULL Deck off restoration back to his original Specs...With a Few Upgrades...

  12. #10
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    As someone who has experienced a CAT fluid damper come apart on the dyno during the first full pull, I would not put one on a model engine. Go Romac for an affordable alternative that is a quality piece.

    Big time ported heads should have flow numbers. Need the flow numbers along with the rest of the info you have posted and a target rpm range to properly cam an engine.
    Chris Straub
    Straub Technologies

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  13. #11
    Resident Ford Nut Sleeper CP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cstraub View Post
    As someone who has experienced a CAT fluid damper come apart on the dyno during the first full pull, I would not put one on a model engine. Go Romac for an affordable alternative that is a quality piece.

    .
    Is the Cat a copy of the older Fluid damper ?

    My Fluidamper ran on the 512" for two yrs and then on the 565" for several yrs. Spun the thing 6,600- 6,800 for yrs.

    S CP

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    fast is the other half.
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    gn7
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    Quote Originally Posted by cstraub View Post

    Big time ported heads should have flow numbers. Need the flow numbers along with the rest of the info you have posted and a target rpm range to properly cam an engine.
    Any body ever hear of big time ported heads flowing worse CFM/area, than stockers with a bowl clean up. Sounds alot like a case of B.I.B./B.B.I.B. Bigger Is Better/But Biggest Is Best



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    gn7
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    I happen to mention to Tom Lieb (Scat) that I was running a ATI, inertia ring, with o-rings. He shrugged and said "there are worse things you could do." Then I mentioned it was blown, and the boat is driven off the snout. He smiled, and said, "see, there are worse that you could do."



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    I have been running a fluid dampner on a sea doo motor that has been abused for the last 10 years and never a problem. Makes a drastic difference in reducing vibration that is felt from the motor. Seeing that they are causing problems on v8 motors, I will probably never try one.

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