blower motor spitting fireballs
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blower motor spitting fireballs

  1. #1
    Frank my lord Blown$um's Avatar
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    Default blower motor spitting fireballs

    heres the scoop , i own a blown alcohol 427 in a sanger hydro. motor wasn't idling high enough. i opened the butterflies a little more with set screws , motor seemed lean so i turned the adjustment on the barrel valve to fatten it up a little. i didn't think i needed to change idle jet pills . and then all of a sudden it started running like top fuel and 2 foot fire balls shooting out zoomies !!. motor started having some of fuel knock to it , it sounded crazy as hell . scared crap out of me thinking any minute two things going to happen catastrophic engine failure and ignite my ez up on fire . ran like hell to fuel shut off and motor died before i got to it . let it sit to contemplate what just happened , couldnt tell ya . so refilled tank and started again now runs perfect , no i wasnt out of fuel , but i dont think that would of done anything to effect it if it did run out . what would of caused this ? anybody know ?

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    Senior Member alkyexpress's Avatar
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    How often do you clean your fuel system ? What fuel injector ,barrel valve, pump ? E

    if the pump-saver bypass sticks shut it puts a lot of fuel in the motor at the idle position
    Last edited by alkyexpress; 08-03-2010 at 12:55 AM.

  4. #3
    Frank my lord Blown$um's Avatar
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    Default still does it

    the engine is a 427 , 871 , hilborn 3 inch 4 hole injector hat #102 injectors . a 150-a pump , idle bypass has a .024 bypass spring and .187 shims in it. the main bypass has a .020 bypass pill in it . and the high speed bypass has a # 70 on its housing . all of this is a base tune straight from don at hilborn injection. i set barrel valve took boat out several times and ,found that it had a big flat spot in its rpm range . mind you at this time it idles perfect , adjusted barrel valve and now it runs bada$$. took it home installed new alternator on it fired it up to see if charging and within a minute of idling was shooting fire out all cylinders about 3 feet and sounded like it was back firing inside the zoomies themselfs. took to lake and tested again it runs perfect in all aspects just within 60 seconds of idling it starts doing it again now like clock work. scares crap out of me thinking at any minute my alcohol hydro going down in flames. ive never carried such a big fire extinguisher until now lol !!
    "Ill be your huckleberry"

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    Senior Member alkyexpress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blown$um View Post
    the engine is a 427 , 871 , hilborn 3 inch 4 hole injector hat #102 injectors . a 150-a pump , idle bypass has a .024 bypass spring and .187 shims in it. the main bypass has a .020 bypass pill in it . and the high speed bypass has a # 70 on its housing . all of this is a base tune straight from don at hilborn injection. i set barrel valve took boat out several times and ,found that it had a big flat spot in its rpm range . mind you at this time it idles perfect , adjusted barrel valve and now it runs bada$$. took it home installed new alternator on it fired it up to see if charging and within a minute of idling was shooting fire out all cylinders about 3 feet and sounded like it was back firing inside the zoomies themselfs. took to lake and tested again it runs perfect in all aspects just within 60 seconds of idling it starts doing it again now like clock work. scares crap out of me thinking at any minute my alcohol hydro going down in flames. ive never carried such a big fire extinguisher until now lol !!
    OK ,Is your injector the ( 6-71 gmc-A Vertical 4 hole ) or the ( 6-71 gmc-E Flat 4 hole facing forward ), How many injector nozzles do you have ,
    with #102 I am thinking 4, DID you buy this system new ?

    I still think it has to do with your barrel valve,
    the spool of the barrel has a number on the end (where the linkage hooks up )this should be pointing to the inlet hose fitting from the pump,( with the hose off you should be able to see a hole in the spool ) also the slot in the end of the spool should be close to vertical .

    The other thing to check is make sure the Idle bypass is facing the right direction, also check the main and hi-speed,

    The flat spot you get to when making a pass might be the spool rotating to far and closing the flow of fuel off at full throttle ,

    If you have a leak-down tester watch the gauge as you go from idle to full throttle , it should go down and NOT go back up at full throttle , ......E

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    Something is missing.
    Your main bypass pill can't be a .020.
    That may be a part throttle bypass or something.....but it sure as hell is not the main jet.

    You need to find this main jet...and perhaps what happened is the bypass hung up on it.
    I imagine it will be .070 or maybe a little larger.

    On edit...maybe what you think is the high speed is actually the main jet. If it has a rather
    stiff spring in it...then it is a high speed. If a weak spring (anywhere from 2 to 10 lbs..but
    usually just enough pressure to seat the poppet) then it is a main bypass. Maybe there is some
    corrosion or something hung it up.
    Last edited by Fiat48; 08-24-2010 at 05:15 PM.

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    Frank my lord Blown$um's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiat48 View Post
    Something is missing.
    Your main bypass pill can't be a .020.
    That may be a part throttle bypass or something.....but it sure as hell is not the main jet.

    You need to find this main jet...and perhaps what happened is the bypass hung up on it.
    I imagine it will be .070 or maybe a little larger.

    On edit...maybe what you think is the high speed is actually the main jet. If it has a rather
    stiff spring in it...then it is a high speed. If a weak spring (anywhere from 2 to 10 lbs..but
    usually just enough pressure to seat the poppet) then it is a main bypass. Maybe there is some
    corrosion or something hung it up.
    it does have .020 main bypass pill in it , motor is 20% over driven and im all most at max capacity for this given pumps flow rates . almost all of the pumps fuel is going to nozzles at wide open throttle , very small amount bypassing back to tank. horrible pic of system but you might be able to follow it on all the lines and figure how system is working
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    "Ill be your huckleberry"

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    Senior Member alkyexpress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blown$um View Post
    it does have .020 main bypass pill in it , motor is 20% over driven and im all most at max capacity for this given pumps flow rates . almost all of the pumps fuel is going to nozzles at wide open throttle , very small amount bypassing back to tank. horrible pic of system but you might be able to follow it on all the lines and figure how system is working
    I still think you have rotated the spool to far in the barrel valve , E

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blown$um View Post
    heres the scoop , i own a blown alcohol 427 in a sanger hydro. motor wasn't idling high enough. i opened the butterflies a little more with set screws , motor seemed lean so i turned the adjustment on the barrel valve to fatten it up a little. i didn't think i needed to change idle jet pills . and then all of a sudden it started running like top fuel and 2 foot fire balls shooting out zoomies !!. motor started having some of fuel knock to it , it sounded crazy as hell . scared crap out of me thinking any minute two things going to happen catastrophic engine failure and ignite my ez up on fire . ran like hell to fuel shut off and motor died before i got to it . let it sit to contemplate what just happened , couldnt tell ya . so refilled tank and started again now runs perfect , no i wasnt out of fuel , but i dont think that would of done anything to effect it if it did run out . what would of caused this ? anybody know ?
    Now from this post.....I assumed maybe a bypass had hung up. I was assuming here this was a "known and tuned fuel system."

    In the next post....now saying "does this all the time after 60 seconds or so of idling. Like clockwork."


    This deal is so fat....it is simply pumping raw fuel out the exhaust and igniting it. A Pg 150a puts out 7 gpm of flow. This deal is set up to try to burn damn near all of that.
    427 inches and 20% over is not gonna burn that volume of fuel.

    Probably richening the barrel valve further aggravated the extremely rich condition to the point it put fuel right out the pipe.

    I don't recall if Hilborns part throttle by pass flows fuel at all times....or if the spool cuts it off after the throttle is opened wide.
    The nozzle size is correct.
    I can't see why the system has a .020 main jet and yet....has a 70 high speed. Typically these don't even need a high speed and main jet would be about a 70 (to be fat and safe) and end up closer to a
    90 main jet after tuning...depending on a lot of things.
    Last edited by Fiat48; 08-29-2010 at 10:52 AM.

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    Senior Member alkyexpress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiat48 View Post
    Now from this post.....I assumed maybe a bypass had hung up. I was assuming here this was a "known and tuned fuel system."

    In the next post....now saying "does this all the time after 60 seconds or so of idling. Like clockwork."


    This deal is so fat....it is simply pumping raw fuel out the exhaust and igniting it. A Pg 150a puts out 7 gpm of flow. This deal is set up to try to burn damn near all of that.
    427 inches and 20% over is not gonna burn that volume of fuel.

    Probably richening the barrel valve further aggravated the extremely rich condition to the point it put fuel right out the pipe.

    I don't recall if Hilborns part throttle by pass flows fuel at all times...or if the spool cuts it off after the throttle is opened wide.
    .
    Correct

  12. #10
    Frank my lord Blown$um's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Fiat48;1209068]Now from this post.....I assumed maybe a bypass had hung up. I was assuming here this was a "known and tuned fuel system."

    In the next post....now saying "does this all the time after 60 seconds or so of idling. Like clockwork."


    This deal is so fat....it is simply pumping raw fuel out the exhaust and igniting it. A Pg 150a puts out 7 gpm of flow. This deal is set up to try to burn damn near all of that.
    427 inches and 20% over is not gonna burn that volume of fuel.

    Probably richening the barrel valve further aggravated the extremely rich condition to the point it put fuel right out the pipe.

    I don't recall if Hilborns part throttle by pass flows fuel at all times....or if the spool cuts it off after the throttle is opened wide.
    The nozzle size is correct.

    you were correct the motor was running extremely fat and my approach to get the flat spot out of the motor was correct to richen the barrel valve but after 10 gallons of alcohol yesterday and 4 hours scratching my head , i figured out what the problem seems to have been. after richening barrel valve i needed to go to a lighter idle bypass spring and adjust shims from their to get the idle circuit from pushing so much fuel at idle and start managing the fuel better with the idle bypass . and yes hilborn does shut off idle circuit at wot. no more fire balls and got flat spot out , still a little fat but now i understand whats happening and can work with the system , thanks for all the help and atleast theirs other knowledgeable people on here to help out because im not the first guy to have problems with alky system ! but i can say i wont go back to carbs on blower apps no more , way more hp to be gained !!!! i cant stress that enough
    "Ill be your huckleberry"

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    Alcohol has such a wide tuning band you are getting away with being way out of the range. A gas motor would simply not run.
    Hilborn or Enderle is gonna set up these deals fat. Several reasons for that. They don't know your blower or combination....they know they can get away with fat and still keep the customer.
    The other reason is the little pump flat scares the hell out of them for blown alcohol applications.

    Enderle's system is a little different.
    Plumbed like Enderle calls for (and they are other ways such as kinsler) All return fuel flows through the metering block and then out one bypass (mounted at the metering block).
    There is no (per say) part throttle adjustment as in Hilborn. You can however plumb the system and create a part throttle bypass but I am not gonna go into that here.

    Hilborn has a part throttle bypass. The main system is a seperate bypass. This is why Hilborns are such a sweet system with gas deals and why I have always said they are the best gas injector for part throttle operation.

    Anyway....yeah...lighter bypass in the part throttle bypasses quicker(earlier)....the pill in there is the restriction...so that adjusts your part throttle. A heavier spring won't let the bypass open till higher pressure.
    The main bypass...flows return fuel all the time the motor is running. A light check spring in there....and the main jet.
    The high speed.....well in this system it should not even be used as far as I am concerned.

    And...when you tune this deal...you will find it is a whole lot fatter than you think it is now.
    But alcohol allows you to do that. You'll waste a lot of fuel and change the oil real often till you get it.

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