tunnel vs airgap
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tunnel vs airgap

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    Default tunnel vs airgap

    Just for giggles. Anyone have info this? Im sure this has been done before. Looking at what real gains are achieved from a tunnel with dual carb vs a single carb airgap or dual plane.
    Search button is useless on this site.
    These are the times I wish I could search the old Hot Boat archives. Kickin myself for not saving that site.

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    HotBoat archieves:

    http://www.riverracer.net/forums/

    Thank Shaun for it.


    Make sure on this site that when searching you set the calender to " beginning" or two years. The default is like 60 days.

    I don't recall that type of test.

    But a friend of mine replaced an 850 DP on a Vic jr. on a 6,200 rpm 502" Chevy with a hydraluic roller cam engine with a T/R and two 1050's . 10:1 comp engine it picked-up 80 hp at peak and I think 65 lbs ft at peak trq.

    I thought it was going to be a dog. It woke that engine up everywhere in the power band.

    S CP
    Last edited by Sleeper CP; 08-26-2010 at 08:21 PM.

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    79 Miller, based on your other thread, you are a long, loooooong ways from needing a T Ram or even a single plane manifold for that matter. Unless you are planing on some major performance changes, an Air Gap is more than enough for your deal, possibly even to much. A Performer maybe more like what you need, depending on what manifold you currently have. If you put more manifold than you can use on that deal, performance will suffer big. Think about starting some where else.



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    Purple headed member Quickjet's Avatar
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    Here is a little story about advise and these forums.
    4 years ago I had a Bahner with an 8.75-1 compression suburban motor, a flat tappet hyd 5.90 lift cam, a tunnel ram with dual 660's and a set of stock 990's off of a 70 Chevelle. Motor was almost 450 hp. That combo went 82.7 mph in a stock heavy hull with full interior and a stock pump with whatever Berkeley put in it in 1979.
    I sold the hull to a friend of mine less engine. When he was getting ready to put a motor in the boat EVERY clown in here told him he would run best with a set of 049's and a Performer RMP air gap and an 850. They stated some bullshit about torque and that 990's with no compression and a tunnel ram would kill the performance. Sad thing is...he listened to that advise.
    All excited he headed to the lake with his new "HOT BOAT ADVISORY COLUMN COMBO".
    Warmed the boat up and made a pass. After hours of timing and jetting changes he got the best of 74.5 mph. He posted his results and the people on here cheered at his success stating that 74.5 mph was decent for a heavy Bahner with a stock pump. He never mentioned the boats past performance.
    One day I convinced him to go against the grain and build a similar motor to the junk one that I had in the boat. Reluctantly he agreed and installed a tunnel ram and a set of 990's on the otherwise STOCK 454.
    The following weekend the boat went 83 mph. He then added a droop and unfortunately never GPSed it after that....but it was faster and dryer.
    Moral of the story....think big. Big heads, big intake etc. 049s are junk and Dual plane intakes are for motor homes.
    Proof is in the boat and on the water....everything else is just entertainment.............
    Last edited by Quickjet; 08-26-2010 at 11:21 PM.
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    So your suggesting a T ram on a motor with oval port heads and a redline of 4700.



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    Quickjet, its the internet. There's good info, and there's bad. The trick is being able to tell the good from the bad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    So your suggesting a T ram on a motor with oval port heads and a redline of 4700.
    Actually he wouldn't know, his tach was broken and he didn't know what his 83 mph boat was reving.

    If he's suggesting that the "typical" stocker will run better with a T/R he knows something that every boat shop doesn't know.

    His boat was certainly an over achiever, at least from what I've seen, but I do know someone who got a 168 mph gps reading more than once

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleeper CP View Post
    Actually he wouldn't know, his tach was broken and he didn't know what his 83 mph boat was reving.

    If he's suggesting that the "typical" stocker will run better with a T/R he knows something that every boat shop doesn't know.

    His boat was certainly an over achiever, at least from what I've seen, but I do know someone who got a 168 mph gps reading more than once

    S CP
    The 4700 redline was in reference to 79 Millers post on another thread. What I was asking is if, based on the little info the 79 Miller put up here, if he was certain a T Ram was the right choice for Miller. I only added to the equation because I knew from another thread, that Miller is talking about a oval port with a limited camshaft, and a redline of 4700. And most likely alumn logs. and still he feels a T Ram is the answer?

    I guess my question is, at what point is a T Ram not the answer. How low does the compression have too be, and how small of a cam, and how restritive the exhaust, how heavy a boat? There has to be a point where they are not the hot ticket.. I would just like Quickjet to clue us in so we will know when NOT to use a T Ram.



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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post

    I guess my question is, at what point is a T Ram not the answer. How low does the compression have too be, and how small of a cam, and how restritive the exhaust, how heavy a boat? There has to be a point where they are not the hot ticket.. I would just like Quickjet to clue us in so we will know when NOT to use a T Ram.
    That's a hell of a well structured question for a "clown" did you get help ?

    And yes I'd like to hear the answer to it also.


    " EVERY clown in here told him he would run best with a set of 049's and a Performer RMP air gap and an 850. They stated some bullshit about torque and that 990's with no compression and a tunnel ram would kill the performance. Sad thing is...he listened to that advise."

    Edit: I'll clearly state that I've had my share of surprises regarding an engines performance capabilities. I never thought that engine Crower did would not only pick-up 80 horse power at peak (6,200) with twin 1,050's, but it gained 65 lbs ft at peak trq too. That engine made more power every where with the T/R and dual dommies over the single plane Victor jr. with a 850 dp. I'd never thought that to be the case.


    S CP
    Last edited by Sleeper CP; 08-27-2010 at 09:27 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    79 Miller, based on your other thread, you are a long, loooooong ways from needing a T Ram or even a single plane manifold for that matter. Unless you are planing on some major performance changes, an Air Gap is more than enough for your deal, possibly even to much. A Performer maybe more like what you need, depending on what manifold you currently have. If you put more manifold than you can use on that deal, performance will suffer big. Think about starting some where else.
    Well no chit! You know what they say about assuming.....

    That stocker motor I have in it right now is just that stock. Ive done alot of bolt on stuff that I could to make it run about the best that I can. I think 4700 even though low for hot boat guys standards, is still a respectable number. It starts everytime, never been stranded, gets decent distance, and all the while it still tucked into a closed engine bay. Plus its moving a fully loaded(toys,anchor,chest,etc.etc. 21ft miniday with twin 15gallon tanks and a minimum of 2 people. To run that and still get in the low 60s going on 5 years is decent in my book.......

    I dont get why peeps here need to rip others peoples chit.
    I simply asked a question because I would like to honestly know what the difference would be? Doesnt really fn matter. I was just curious.

    My plans is to get my stocker motor running right now and eliminate the "chatter". I like wrenching and Ive never done springs yet so I thought it would be a good time to learn. No harm in that. Only harm ive seen so far is someone telling me to use the wrong springs...
    My plan is to park the stocker engine and over the winter find a good core and strong crank and build something that gets me into the low 70s. Not sure if I want a lid on it or not yet or maybe have it peaking out a little. Its a miniday so Im not trying to make it something its not designed for but I think this hull can handle some more ponies.
    Last edited by 79miller; 08-27-2010 at 09:14 AM.

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    whoa, back up the bus Miller. Not trashing your deal at all. Chill alittle. I was only state that quickjet was making a suggestion for a T ram on a deal that can in no way support one. Not condemning anything. Trying to keep you from making a backwards step here. There many things you can do to increase performance without taking the drastic step of a T ram that you'll end up hating. When you know what your going to put in your new deal, then some one can make a more intelligent suggestion for a manifold. You can't just blanket state a T Ram is the answer. It can very well be the worse choice possible on the wrong deal. And I am a big T Ram fan.

    Iam going to be a nice guy here, like when I took the time to research the spring numbers for you when you could manage your way around Summit's site, and allow you to apologize for even going there with me. Or find somebody else to do your leg work for you, or stop you from making a stupid ass mistake like installing a T Ram on that deal.



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    Last edited by gn7; 08-27-2010 at 09:33 AM.

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    Purple headed member Quickjet's Avatar
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    Point being.....be very careful about the questions you ask in here. My friend got really bad advise and when he posted his results he ended up with a mindless cheering section.
    If I had listened to a lot of the things I've read in here the Bahner would of NEVER ran what it did. Funny how when you apply logic to the equation your boat gets deemed a "Freak" rather than a well thought out combo.
    Oh...and dynos don't float..........
    As far as a tunnel ram goes....run it. Then learn from what it does and make it work. Oh, and ditch the heads if you are running oval ports. Get yourself some nice square ports.
    I'd still run the ram though..............
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quickjet View Post
    As far as a tunnel ram goes....run it. Then learn from what it does and make it work.
    So, basically your saying, build till the T Ram works Yeah, I see the wisdom in that. If you put it on a stock 454, with a stock cam, and 8.5 CR, and it does work, its not the T Ram, its the motor. I like it

    just for your info, there is a 496 on another thread making 680 HP with oval heads and an Air Gap. So evidently they are more than capable of supporting 650 + HP. But if they are enough to produce that HP on a 496 with a roller, they will very easily support a mild 454. If you couldn't get the numbers with a single plane and a 950 Holley, don't blame the manifold and carb. Its done every day. If your friend gained almost 10 MPH with a T Ram change and nothing else, on a truck motor, I call BS



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    Last edited by gn7; 08-27-2010 at 09:52 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Quickjet View Post
    Here is a little story about advise and these forums.
    4 years ago I had a Bahner with an 8.75-1 compression suburban motor, a flat tappet hyd 5.90 lift cam, a tunnel ram with dual 660's and a set of stock 990's off of a 70 Chevelle. Motor was almost 450 hp. That combo went 82.7 mph in a stock heavy hull with full interior and a stock pump with whatever Berkeley put in it in 1979.
    I sold the hull to a friend of mine less engine. When he was getting ready to put a motor in the boat EVERY clown in here told him he would run best with a set of 049's and a Performer RMP air gap and an 850. They stated some bullshit about torque and that 990's with no compression and a tunnel ram would kill the performance. Sad thing is...he listened to that advise.
    All excited he headed to the lake with his new "HOT BOAT ADVISORY COLUMN COMBO".
    Warmed the boat up and made a pass. After hours of timing and jetting changes he got the best of 74.5 mph. He posted his results and the people on here cheered at his success stating that 74.5 mph was decent for a heavy Bahner with a stock pump. He never mentioned the boats past performance.
    One day I convinced him to go against the grain and build a similar motor to the junk one that I had in the boat. Reluctantly he agreed and installed a tunnel ram and a set of 990's on the otherwise STOCK 454.
    The following weekend the boat went 83 mph. He then added a droop and unfortunately never GPSed it after that....but it was faster and dryer.
    Moral of the story....think big. Big heads, big intake etc. 049s are junk and Dual plane intakes are for motor homes.
    Proof is in the boat and on the water....everything else is just entertainment.............
    My 049 headed, 850 dp, rpm air gapped, 557 hp 461 inch bbc would not push your boat to 82 mph?

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