Water injection?
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Water injection?

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    Junior Member The Fying Hawaiian's Avatar
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    Default Water injection?

    Has anybody experimented with water injection on blower or turbo motors? I was thinking of using 2 nos plates with the fuel solinoids ran to the water comming in from the pump than wiring the solinoids to an rpm switch. It would be alot cheaper than an intercooler and would keep the blower cool at the same time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Fying Hawaiian View Post
    Has anybody experimented with water injection on blower or turbo motors? I was thinking of using 2 nos plates with the fuel solinoids ran to the water comming in from the pump than wiring the solinoids to an rpm switch. It would be alot cheaper than an intercooler and would keep the blower cool at the same time.
    Call Rodney at Alcohol Injection Systems. You could not find a nicer guy to talk to on the phone and he knows his sh!t.

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    Senior Member VDRIVERACING's Avatar
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    If you have a tented floor on your manifold you can weld up the bottom side of the manifold, then tap each end for a hose fitting and run water through it. You'll be amazed at how much it will cool things down.


    Quote Originally Posted by The Fying Hawaiian View Post
    Has anybody experimented with water injection on blower or turbo motors? I was thinking of using 2 nos plates with the fuel solinoids ran to the water comming in from the pump than wiring the solinoids to an rpm switch. It would be alot cheaper than an intercooler and would keep the blower cool at the same time.

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    gn7
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Fying Hawaiian View Post
    Has anybody experimented with water injection on blower or turbo motors? I was thinking of using 2 nos plates with the fuel solinoids ran to the water comming in from the pump than wiring the solinoids to an rpm switch. It would be alot cheaper than an intercooler and would keep the blower cool at the same time.
    WAY WAYWAY
    Too much water. All you'll do is manage to hydraulic your motor. Or at the very least, put the fire out.



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    Water or alcohol injection is radical stuff used for drag racing and most feel it is a Jerry rig approach. For a boat that will run at WOT for long periods of time I would definitely use an intercooler and not mess with water injection.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cheliose View Post
    Water or alcohol injection is radical stuff used for drag racing and most feel it is a Jerry rig approach. For a boat that will run at WOT for long periods of time I would definitely use an intercooler and not mess with water injection.
    Not exactly certain how alky injection is considered a "Jerry rig" approach. What are the guys running injection doing when they run alky? Not really sure how being able to "switch" to a E85 type fuel, on the fly, is JERRY RIGGING?



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    Its methanol that you inject, some mix it down to 50/50 with water and its used to cool the intake charge under boost. I ran a meth/water injection setup on my old turbo motor with a pressure switch that would turn on the injection while i was over 10lbs of boost this way i could run more boost on pump gas without detonation problems.
    Nice!

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    Highaboosta Unchained's Avatar
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    Water/alky injection works, but once you install it then it's an integral part of the system.
    If for any reason the water doesn't make into the motor under boost, you'll have scrap.

    It doesn't take much water to do the job.
    When I ran it years ago at the sand drags I had a windshield washer pump shooting through a .030 jet directly into the top of the carburetor.

    I guess IMO the intercooler may be more dependable in the long run.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAXIMUS View Post
    I think I could run more boost but it's a real hand full right now

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    It's actually a common misconception that alcohol or water injection cools the intake charge. What it actually does is causes chemical interference that slows the rate of combustion thus preventing detonation - rich AFR does the same thing.

    Anyway, it is not a substitute for an intercooler and most of the time it is used as a substitute for proper engine tuning.

    If you run it all the time, it would likely cause a lot of plug foul and who knows what other problems. Plus, if something fails you will blow your motor.

    How much boost are you running that you think you need this? Typically, a proper tune involves proper AFR, proper timing and colder plugs with high octane fuel. Really, it all depends on how much boost and final compression you have. A typical 7lbs is pretty low boost. You could get by with an 11.5 AFR, a step colder plugs and a BTM set up to pull a few degrees of timing.

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    gn7
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheliose View Post
    It's actually a common misconception that alcohol or water injection cools the intake charge. What it actually does is causes chemical interference that slows the rate of combustion thus preventing detonation - rich AFR does the same thing.
    Wonder if the guys running K boats and Top Alcohol Flats and Hydros are under this same misconception, considering none of them run intercoolers.
    wonder if the companies that amnufacture and sell injection systems are as "in tune" with the physics of absorbtion of Latent Heat as you are?



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    Senior Member littlejockocougar's Avatar
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    It seems this question comes up every 6 months or so..

    I have built 2 of these systems, copying it from my dads buddies boat from the early 80's.

    they had a very simple process. Make a tank approx. 1-2 qts. capacity, pressurize it with boost(use a one way check valve so you dont suck the water/alky when making vacum, not boost), then a dash 4 line over the carbs with a .020-.025 hole over each carb acting as a spray bar.

    The system is so simple, no pumps,solenoids,switches, or anything else to fail. If your making boost, and there is water/alky in the tank, your system works. The lower your tank becomes, the longer it will take to pressurize, still pretty quick.

    I used this set up on a 572 w/ a 10-71 12lbs boost,
    491w/ a 6-71 15lbs boost,
    And the one I copied ran 468 w/6-71 16lbs boost on pump gas.

    As Mark (Unchained) stated above, this becomes an integral part of the system and tune up, if it goes away under boost your in trouble, hence the reason for such a simple system. You could build this system for $200-$500, or buy one from snow or other manufwctureres. few other details, but this is the bulk of it..If interested in more info let me know. Hope this helps.

    Steve

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    Water and water/meth injection have been used extensively in the turbocharged world for years now. There are now on the market fairly sophisticated systems for the injection. Heck they used water injection during WWII in the aircraft to obtain higher altitude in the turbo/supercharged engines.....

    Regardless, water injection should only be used to solve a detonation problem. In other words if you are having a detonation problem extracting the torque and HP numbers you need, the injection may be a solution. Water injection accomplishes two very good things; reduce the charge temperature and slows down the flame front in the cylinders. The flame front speed when too fast or not controlled is detonation or knock. Water's high latent heat of vaporization removes a high amount of heat in the intake charge netting two benefits, higher density charge in the cylinders and resistance to preignition; preignition and detonation/knock are two different things. As a note, Methanol's latent heat of vaporization is even higher than water however pure alc will be much more problematic than water due to corrosion and other side affects. A 50/50 or less mix is common. Water, if properly atomized, also intermixes (not a chemical reaction as previously stated) with the oxygen and gasoline molucules establishing an "interference" to the chemical reaction (the burning) of the fuel / oxygen mixture. This slows down the flame propagation across the pistion crown and consequently reduces detonation. The key to water injection, if you think you need it, is precise control of the injected amount and atomized spray. There is a fine line between an engine's peak HP/Torque capability and detonation and water injection may be of help or it can actually reduce your numbers if not prescribed appropriately.

    As a note, The guys building the little rotary motors really have water injection down to a science as these motors cannot tollerate any knock. They are getting 500 hp and above reliability from the little 1.3 L turbocharged engines using water injection. Do a search.
    Last edited by ttmott; 09-20-2010 at 03:26 AM.

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    IMHO if you are going to run big boost you run the proper fuel, period, ie C-16 or methanol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cheliose View Post
    If you run it all the time, it would likely cause a lot of plug foul and who knows what other problems. .
    When I used it the plugs came out looking steam cleaned.
    They were so clean you couldn't get a reading on them.
    Last edited by Unchained; 09-20-2010 at 08:07 AM.

    Twin Turbo 1800 HP V-Drive lake boat

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger View Post
    No one cares about your buddies old antiquated garden hose technology.
    Quote Originally Posted by MAXIMUS View Post
    I think I could run more boost but it's a real hand full right now

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