Put More Jet To It?
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Put More Jet To It?

  1. #1
    Super Moderator HammerDown's Avatar
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    Question Put More Jet To It?

    I'm thinking yes, not seeing any fuel ring way down deep even with a magnifier.
    Plugs look the same cruising at 3800 or WOT pass.
    Also > too much transfer slot showing?


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    Its hard to tell from the pictures but there appears to be some color deep in the plug and there is some soot around the plug base after the threads which would not indicate a lean condition. Were these pulled after a WOT pass with a quick shutdown? As for the transfer slots it doesn't look excessive. If much more that .040" is showing you may try adjusting the secondaries open a bit and back off the primaries. If you cover up the transfer slot too much you could get a noticable off idle stumble. How does it run?

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    Super Moderator HammerDown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WETTE VETTE View Post
    Its hard to tell from the pictures but there appears to be some color deep in the plug and there is some soot around the plug base after the threads which would not indicate a lean condition. Were these pulled after a WOT pass with a quick shutdown? As for the transfer slots it doesn't look excessive. If much more that .040" is showing you may try adjusting the secondaries open a bit and back off the primaries. If you cover up the transfer slot too much you could get a noticeable off idle stumble. How does it run?
    I'm in a tuning stage with my annular 850 DP > just cured a bad flat spot between 3800/4000 RPM > 8.5 power valve (vs the OE 6.5) in the primaries fixed that problem.

    Have a VERY-slight stumble when holding 1600 RPM > when I cover the outboard air bleed with my finger it gets worse. No brass inserts in the two outboard Primary air bleeds.

    Stock jetting is 78 square > that sucked bad
    Jumped up to 81 primaries and 86 secondaries w/a blocked rear PV that's the plugs in pics.

    Now heading out to try 84 primaries and 88 secondaries.

    Great tip about the secondary butterflies > I'll keep that in mind.

    EDIT > since I switched over to 20/50 synthetic I now have a VERY-SLIGHT oil splash on plug base, thus making it a little difficult to read.


    Thanks, Ray
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    gn7
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    Hammer, when you say there is no brass insert in the primary air bleed, does that mean there is a much larger hole there, as compared to the secondary idle outside bleed? Or the carb casting is drilled to th bleed size with no insert. If the insert is just gone, it has a huge effect on the transfer slot of the primaries.

    The plugs do not look that lean based on the color of the plug body edge. You may what to seriously think about going to a equal heat range NGK non projected tip plug. Much easier to read. Projected tip plug run the ceramic and tip warmer than non projected. You can go back if you prefer them. But while tuning, they are a pain.



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    Super Moderator HammerDown's Avatar
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    Thumbs up


    GN and a few others
    , thanks for clearing the confusion with this annular 850 and the many questions I have asked > and you have been more than gracious to answer
    *I located the secondary adjustment screw however, I may not need to touch it.
    *I now understand the "squaring of the T-slots"
    *"spacers" I understand the bandaid comment > my way of thinking > being I'm using a dual plane intake for lower RPM throttle response and drive-ability 'maybe' a spacer will trick my Wieand Stealth to act more like a Team-G and add a little more RPM to WOT, no?
    *or, would a Edelbrock Victor be a better direction?

    Update from Thursday...
    *the 1600 rpm miss is history as I simply turned out the idle mixture screws.
    *while out on the water, I rotated/advanced the distributor about the size of a pencil line.
    *the results from the above was >>> I was able to back down idle RPM thus close the butterflies even more and squaring the T-slots .
    *the engine picked up 200 RPM up top > I'll need to put a dial-back light on it to see where total timing's at. It was at 35* all in by 3000
    *even with increased jetting > the plugs appear very white and again, not seeing any fuel ring way down low in the plug > I may cut one open to have a better look.

    *** In small steps I feel it's coming together quite well...I would like to set total timing for the max RPM but > be cautious to make sure I'm not on the cusp of detonation.

    GN, air bleeds pic below
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    Quote Originally Posted by HammerDown View Post
    *while out on the water, I rotated/advanced the distributor about the size of a penile line.
    you going to detonate for sure, (i would suppose)
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    Super Moderator HammerDown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by miketeast View Post
    you going to detonate for sure, (i would suppose)
    YOu wouldn't...as mine is much thicker than yours
    Good God, nice catch Mike
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    gn7
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    Alittle combo of all of it. You richened it a taste with the mixture screw, kick a touch more timing in which allowed you to close down on the transfer slot and wala. You becoming a tuner Hammer.

    And don't listen to MikeTeast. With your needle dick, you'll still be able to run 87 octane. But please. Keep those kind of tunning comments in the Gray Water forum



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    Last edited by gn7; 09-24-2010 at 01:54 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HammerDown View Post
    YOu wouldn't...as mine is much thicker than yours
    Good God, nice catch Mike
    Its not the size of the pencile that counts, its how well you write with it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    Alittle combo of all of it. You richened it a taste with the mixture screw, kick a touch more timing in which allowed you to close down on the transfer slot and wala. You becoming a tuner Hammer.

    And don't listen to MikeTeast. With your needle dick, you'll still be able to run 87 octane. But please. Keep those kind of tunning comments in the Gray Water forum
    I should ban you for being such a BS'er....your help/suggestions got me there and for that, I'm adding you to my Valentines Day card list
    Hey, is it me or are AC-Delco plugs difficult to read? Sure wish I could see just a little difference from 8 jet sizes.
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    steelcomp was here
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    Everything you're doing is right on, and looks like you're on the right track. Have you ever considered locking out your dist. timing? You really don't need a curve with a jet, and you'll realy like what it does to your throttle response and idle quality.
    If I am seeing the plugs clearly enough, looks like you can stand a little more timing (if these are after the timing change).
    An open spacer on your Stealth won't hurt a thing and may help dampen the signal a little and even it out across the carb. Also adds a little plenum volume. You may have to re-tune accordingly.
    Delco plugs are not my favorite. I agree with GN...try the NGK.
    Is all this testing with or without your scoop?

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    gn7
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    I agree, if you can, lock out the dizzy. With a jet, the second you are in the gas hard enough to put a load on the motor, its already passed 2500-3000. And the extra timing at low unloaded Rs will make it much happer.



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    GN, Steel: if you will again forgive a rookie...


    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    I agree, if you can, lock out the dizzy. With a jet, the second you are in the gas hard enough to put a load on the motor, its already passed 2500-3000. And the extra timing at low unloaded Rs will make it much happer.

    and kick a starter into the bilge...ask Soaker, or them Blower fags (who run locked out distributers) Of course i seen ignition lockouts, MSD boxes and such to help this. It is something to think about when locking out the timing.

    I have my own ideas on distributers in N/A jetboat applications too, right or wrong...and i am not adverse to change based on suggestion of a better way.

    1. Never use advanced electronics on the water if you plan to go far and make it back lots of times.

    2. Know your cranking timing...unavoidable cam slop at the gear (thrust wobble) will vary this some 2deg but it is good to know, and it should be at 10-14deg. Easy start, good idle.

    3. Know your WOT timing. Know your WOT timing. Know your WOT timing.

    4. Never set the timing on the water without a light, no matter how small your penile line is. Know your WOT timing.
    Last edited by miketeast; 09-25-2010 at 04:52 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HammerDown View Post
    I should ban you for being such a BS'er....your help/suggestions got me there and for that, I'm adding you to my Valentines Day card list
    Hey, is it me or are AC-Delco plugs difficult to read? Sure wish I could see just a little difference from 8 jet sizes.
    you cannot read a plug for mixture where the plug is too hot to begin with. Consult Blown Daytona on this.

    Now, remember, i USED to run a lot of nitrous and miles/hours...and will again...so i ran as rich an cool as i could get away with. Non-extended j-strap plugs...

    Soaker used NGK and likes them...i cant read them: either from not being able to see the colors or just not knowing what to look for. I seem to be able to read my ac easier...especially the heat/'timing' line in the electrode.
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