Av Gas vs Race Fuel
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Av Gas vs Race Fuel

  1. #1
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    Default Av Gas vs Race Fuel

    Besides the octane, what is the difference between 100 Av Gas and 110 Racing Fuel? Thanks

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    Senior Member TNYoungblood's Avatar
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    I know AV has glycol in it to keep from freezeing .. I run it in my 13:1 BBC with alittle marvels oil and it seems to really like it .. Alittle cheaper also... Other than that I don't know

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    Gas freezes?

    Avgas has a different vapor pressure. Since it is designed to fly up in altitude it is designed to not vaporize the same at sea level like autogas. It contains lead also. And it does accumulate in the engine.

    Like any fuel the octane value is resistance to detonation. Once you establish a tuneup for it, it's a done deal.
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    gn7
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    It also uses totally different parameters for determing the octane. If Avgas was tested under the same conditions as "mogas"or "autogas", it wouldn't have the octane rating it does. The test procedure is close to the MON test for autogas but with a much lower intake temperature. It DOES NOT have the same octane rating as 100 octane race gas. And it has a much lower REID VAPOR rating. Also, the whole "dry" thing is completely misunderstood. The "dry" in Avgas means it is certified to contain much less water, which will freeze. Any glycol in the fuel is to inhibit any water it does contain from freezing. And there isn't much glycol in it.

    It goes into a internal combustion engine. Why would they make it less lubricating? Air plane pistons and valves are some how immune to needing lube?

    Buy it while you can. This stuff is under the gun with the tree huggers. It would already be gone if there weren't so many turboed planes out there. If yo doubt this, ask your self what happened to the 115/130 that was common as hell noty that long ago. Or the old Chevron White pump for that matter.



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    Quote Originally Posted by tnyoungblood View Post
    i know av has glycol in it to keep from freezeing .. I run it in my 13:1 bbc with alittle marvels oil and it seems to really like it .. Alittle cheaper also:d... Other than that i don't know
    same here, and it smells good~!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    It also uses totally different parameters for determing the octane. If Avgas was tested under the same conditions as "mogas"or "autogas", it wouldn't have the octane rating it does. The test procedure is close to the MON test for autogas but with a much lower intake temperature. It DOES NOT have the same octane rating as 100 octane race gas. And it has a much lower REID VAPOR rating. Also, the whole "dry" thing is completely misunderstood. The "dry" in Avgas means it is certified to contain much less water, which will freeze. Any glycol in the fuel is to inhibit any water it does contain from freezing. And there isn't much glycol in it.

    It goes into a internal combustion engine. Why would they make it less lubricating? Air plane pistons and valves are some how immune to needing lube?

    Buy it while you can. This stuff is under the gun with the tree huggers. It would already be gone if there weren't so many turboed planes out there. If yo doubt this, ask your self what happened to the 115/130 that was common as hell noty that long ago. Or the old Chevron White pump for that matter.
    Finally , someone who knows about av gas ...I've always wondered why people think they need to add oil to the gas...crazy .

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    Quote Originally Posted by HALLETT BOY View Post
    Finally , someone who knows about av gas ...I've always wondered why people think they need to add oil to the gas...crazy .

    That ol' GN7 is just full of all kinds of Knowledge !!!!!

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    gn7
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    95UL with ETBE (Eythel-Tertiary-Butyl-Ether. Look for it at airport near you.This is the future of AvGas as you'll know it.

    Also there si a big push towards "supplemental type certification", meaning air craft certified to run on autogas.

    And Avgas has a Specific Gravity of about 6.05, compared to say VPs 110 which is 7.30. This means you should be jetting up with Avgas, and be using more. And the "octane rating" of avgas goes up as the mixture gets richer. All gas does, but Avgas even more so, because of the blend.



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    Last edited by gn7; 10-06-2010 at 12:51 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    It also uses totally different parameters for determing the octane. If Avgas was tested under the same conditions as "mogas"or "autogas", it wouldn't have the octane rating it does. The test procedure is close to the MON test for autogas but with a much lower intake temperature. It DOES NOT have the same octane rating as 100 octane race gas. And it has a much lower REID VAPOR rating. Also, the whole "dry" thing is completely misunderstood. The "dry" in Avgas means it is certified to contain much less water, which will freeze. Any glycol in the fuel is to inhibit any water it does contain from freezing. And there isn't much glycol in it.

    It goes into a internal combustion engine. Why would they make it less lubricating? Air plane pistons and valves are some how immune to needing lube?

    Buy it while you can. This stuff is under the gun with the tree huggers. It would already be gone if there weren't so many turboed planes out there. If yo doubt this, ask your self what happened to the 115/130 that was common as hell noty that long ago. Or the old Chevron White pump for that matter.
    Educated and well versed response. M

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    There are some perks to spending alot of time in the refineries. Hotter than hell, wearing a fire nomex suit, and long work days. But there is info in there if you know who to ask. The guys at the Chevron USA lab in El Segundo Ca are the great guys. The lab at Conoco (old Unocal), in Wilmington Cal, is the home of the old Nascar 110 fuel used for years. They both love to talk shop.



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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    There are some perks to spending alot of time in the refineries. Hotter than hell, wearing a fire nomex suit, and long work days. But there is info in there if you know who to ask. The guys at the Chevron USA lab in El Segundo Ca are the great guys. The lab at Conoco (old Unocal), in Wilmington Cal, is the home of the old Nascar 110 fuel used for years. They both love to talk shop.
    Well understood and the part that slips by is that the octane rating is based on a altitude reading! Correct me if I am wrong cause I always ran AV with a 4 to 1 mix with premium pump gas to " stabilize " for lower altitude atmosphere conditions. I would appreciate a reaspnse on this because I had a problem with straight AV and found this to be a cure! M

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    The avgas is harder to vaporize than mogas. The vaporization thing is one of the issues with the supplemental type certificaion, the certification that allows mogas to be used in an aircraft. The fuel lines must be insulated and routed away from any heat source and cooled by outside air etc. or the mogas can flash off and cause a vapor lock. Not a good thing at 10,000 ft So by adding pump gas to the avgas, you are adding fuel with a high enough vapor pressure to flash easier and allows for an easier ignition. It isn't really neccessary, specially if you run mag, because Avgas is still much easier to light than methanol. And remember, airplanes still have to start and make good power at lower altitudes. But the addition of mogas will make the process easier. But will also lower the knock index down slightly. So go lightly

    I think the big push in av fuels is going to be alky based, both ethanol and ethers. Even with all the issues with water. I still think that will be the direction it will end up going. The tree huggers are really after the CO2 emmissions of aviation fuels. And Continetal, and Lycoming are hard at work coming up with alternative fuel engines. Diesel is even back in the game. The Germans used diesel planes in WWII.



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    Last edited by gn7; 10-06-2010 at 10:00 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    And remember, airplanes still have to start and make good power at lower altitudes.

    Diesel is even back in the game. The Germans used diesel planes in WWII.
    It’s also known was Jet-A or Jp8 or what ever your company calls it. Our diesel GPU's will run on Jet-A all day because it’s Kerosene based.

    They do have to make good power at lower Alt. but the mixture is usually really high as opposed to in cruise where it's pulled back and making the same power becuase of the air. Whos to say Mogas or some other type of fuel will act the same? Fuel cost might go through the roof becuase you have to keep the mixture or throttle very high.

    That purple shit was the best!

    We run a number of turbo recip aircraft. They have asked us what we think about doing away with AVGAS. We gave them a report basically telling them to go F them self’s.

    I am not going to go into the details but the amount of money to change over current Aircraft engines as well as develop new engines is sky high. You don’t just say "Hey were going switch to mogas or some other type of fuel" You have to revise MX procedures and down every aircraft you have to try to convert it over. Will probes all run the same on different gas or will new ones have to be made?

    It’s like going to the Top Fuel guys "ok, were going to try to make the same power on VP 110 or something similar.”
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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    The avgas is harder to vaporize than mogas. The vaporization thing is one of the issues with the supplemental type certificaion, the certification that allows mogas to be used in an aircraft. The fuel lines must be insulated and routed away from any heat source and cooled by outside air etc. or the mogas can flash off and cause a vapor lock. Not a good thing at 10,000 ft So by adding pump gas to the avgas, you are adding fuel with a high enough vapor pressure to flash easier and allows for an easier ignition. It isn't really neccessary, specially if you run mag, because Avgas is still much easier to light than methanol. And remember, airplanes still have to start and make good power at lower altitudes. But the addition of mogas will make the process easier. But will also lower the knock index down slightly. So go lightly

    I think the big push in av fuels is going to be alky based, both ethanol and ethers. Even with all the issues with water. I still think that will be the direction it will end up going. The tree huggers are really after the CO2 emmissions of aviation fuels. And Continetal, and Lycoming are hard at work coming up with alternative fuel engines. Diesel is even back in the game. The Germans used diesel planes in WWII.
    GN-7 Good to talk with you on this! The main reason I would use the flat land feul was for the pourpose you have stated. I have had and raced methanol boats and know the vaporization and atomization factors involved. We are know discussing a feul disigned for alltitude in a sea-level atmosphere which is why I kicked it with a pinch of pump gas. Thank you for the input. I am not a licensed pilot but have flown in enough small planes and done pre-flight to know the feul tanks are on top of the check list for water content. Thanks again M

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