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New to forum, first post and need help

  1. #1
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    Default New to forum, first post and need help

    Not new to boating or to rebuilding. Although I have never rebuilt a V8 I have rebuilt many 4's over a 35 year mechanic career.

    Here is what I have that I know for sure. 79 Cee Bee Avenger 185 series that I bought from a private owner back in 1994. What I can remember, I was told that the 460 was built by an engine shop about 2 hours from where I live, can't remember the name so I can't contact them. Was told it was .030 over, 13.5:1, heads redone, and roller rockers. What I know for sure. Does have roller rockers, Weiand Tunnel Ram with two 4150 vacuum secondaries Holleys (not sure what size, thinking 600), Bassett headers, Accel dual point and Super Coil. 12JG pump with Jetovater. Pump balanced and blueprinted with stainless AA impeller. Have documentation, done by Don's Pump Service in Columbus Ohio. By the way block ID# D1VE 6015 -A2A, heads D3VE A2A.

    Never had GPS on it but boat ran a max of 75 with mufflers in according to speedo. Mufflers out it would bury an 80 mph speedo maybe to 85-90.

    Lost the engine in 09, not out of the boat but I can see it broke a rod, cam shaft, oil pan has some holes in it, lifter cocked in the bore and can't move it and piece of the block broken by the hole between the back lifter bores.

    Was happy with the way it ran and would like to build it the same or slightly better than before. Was thinking maybe a slight stroke. Have found several D1VE blocks and a C9VE-B to start with. I saw the builds listed on another forum with HP ratings. What I'm looking for is someone knowledgeable that can tell me what HP rating I need to look at building to bring me at least to where I was using the same intake, carbs, headers and heads I have.

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  3. #2
    Senior Member earlbrown's Avatar
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    I hate to sound over obvious but tear the engine down and measure what you've got (or had, rather) and then go from there.

  4. #3
    steelcomp was here
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    Only way of really even guessing at what hp you were making would be with a tach. Knowing what rpm you were turning would give a decent ball park. Are you intending on keeping the 13.5:1? Are you looking to build this yourself?
    If God is your co-pilot, change seats!
    Acts 2:38, the perfect answer to the perfect question.

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  6. #4
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    I don't think the tach ever read more than 5200. I am planning on building it myself other than any machine work. As far as the 13.5:1, I can live with 93 octane and running super 104 as that is what I was doing if thats what it will take. I'm not opposed to lower the compression and doing something else to bring the hp back up.

  7. #5
    steelcomp was here
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    Spinning a AA 5200rpm would require about 530 hp at the impeller. You can do that with a healthy 460 build, or make life easier and add some displacement with a stroker kit. The factory heads can work but you'll want to upgrade them with some modern performance upgrades like decent vlave jobs, maybe some port work and good accurate guide clearances. Good valves and springs are basic essentials for a marine build along with a good quality roller rocker.
    If you can afford a roller cam, there's more power to be had there, and a good oil pan is a worthwhile investment. With today's issues with flat tappets, I wouldn't recommend going that route unless you absolutely have to.
    At or below 5500rpm, the intake is a toss up between a single plane like the Edelbrock Victor or dual plane, like the Edelbrock Performer RPM or Weiand Stealth. A carb in the 850-1000cfm range, and I'd stay with the 4150 HOlley and stay away from the Dominator flange. If you go with enough displacement, 600hp+ on pump gas in a very usable rpm range is well within reach of what I laid out above.
    If God is your co-pilot, change seats!
    Acts 2:38, the perfect answer to the perfect question.

  8. #6
    www.highflowdynamics.com LakesOnly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bcimino View Post
    79 Cee Bee Avenger 185 series that I bought from a private owner back in 1994. What I can remember, I was told that the 460 was built by an engine shop about 2 hours from where I live, can't remember the name so I can't contact them. Was told it was .030 over, 13.5:1, heads redone, and roller rockers. What I know for sure. Does have roller rockers, Weiand Tunnel Ram with two 4150 vacuum secondaries Holleys (not sure what size, thinking 600), Bassett headers, Accel dual point and Super Coil. 12JG pump with Jetovater. Pump balanced and blueprinted with stainless AA impeller. By the way block ID# D1VE 6015 -A2A, heads D3VE A2A.

    Never had GPS on it but boat ran a max of 75 with mufflers in according to speedo. Mufflers out it would bury an 80 mph speedo maybe to 85-90.

    Lost the engine in 09, not out of the boat but I can see it broke a rod, cam shaft, oil pan has some holes in it, lifter cocked in the bore and can't move it and piece of the block broken by the hole between the back lifter bores.

    Was happy with the way it ran and would like to build it the same or slightly better than before. Was thinking maybe a slight stroke. Have found several D1VE blocks and a C9VE-B to start with. I saw the builds listed on another forum with HP ratings. What I'm looking for is someone knowledgeable that can tell me what HP rating I need to look at building to bring me at least to where I was using the same intake, carbs, headers and heads I have.
    In order to have 13.5:1 c/r with a stock stroke 460 with D3VE heads, you would need to have a custom piston with 30cc domes, which is absolutely positively not happening in a 460 applicable piston forging, and most certainly not in pre-1994. Further, back in 1994 the only stroker crankshafts readily available for the 460 (short of $2000+ crankshafts) were had by offset stroking the OEM crank and the common practice was a 0.300" stroke (down to a 2.200" rod journal). Even then, you would still need a 25cc domed piston. NO way.

    My jet boat has a D1VE block and D3VE heads also, as well as OEM crank/stoke, similar induction, etc, and it goes 85 mph. Off-the-shelf 11:1 dome top pistons.

    The listed combos on the 460 Forum are real-world capable. Note that they are not the only way to get to those hp ratings, but they are nevertheless real world hp-capable.

    Feel free to call with any 460-related questions while planning your next combo.

    LO

    p.s.: Oh by the way, the ol' TRW dome tops that give 10.5-11:1 c/r with the D3VE heads will indeed give 13+:1 with the D0VE heads, so maybe somebody has their part numbers mixed up in their notes or mis-read the compression ratio charts on the piston info, something like that.
    Last edited by LakesOnly; 10-25-2010 at 10:41 AM.
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    This post © Copyright 2007-2017 Paul Kane. No copying, linking, printing or otherwise without express written permission.

  9. #7
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    Thanks to everyone for the info so far.

    Quote Originally Posted by LakesOnly View Post
    In order to have 13.5:1 c/r with a stock stroke 460 with D3VE heads, you would need to have a custom piston with 30cc domes, which is absolutely positively not happening in a 460 applicable piston forging, and most certainly not in pre-1994. Further, back in 1994 the only stroker crankshafts readily available for the 460 (short of $2000+ crankshafts) were had by offset stroking the OEM crank and the common practice was a 0.300" stroke (down to a 2.200" rod journal). Even then, you would still need a 25cc domed piston. NO way.

    My jet boat has a D1VE block and heads also, as well as OEM crank/stoke, similar induction, etc, and it goes 85 mph. Off-the-shelf 11:1 dome top pistons.

    The listed combos on the 460 Forum are real-world capable. Note that they are not the only way to get to those hp ratings, but they are nevertheless real world hp-capable.

    Feel free to call with any 460-related questions while planning your next combo.

    LO

    p.s.: Oh by the way, the ol' TRW dome tops that give 10.5-11:1 c/r with the D3VE heads will indeed give 13+:1 with the D0VE heads, so maybe somebody has their part numbers mixed up in thier notes or something like that.
    LakesOnly:
    Can you tell me if there is any advantage to going with the C9VE block over the D1VE. And what are you running for fuel with the 11:1's.

  10. #8
    www.highflowdynamics.com LakesOnly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bcimino View Post
    Thanks to everyone for the info so far.
    LakesOnly:
    Can you tell me if there is any advantage to going with the C9VE block over the D1VE. And what are you running for fuel with the 11:1's.
    C9VE-B blocks were utilized primarily in the 1969 model year; D1VE blocks were used from 1971-1978. There are only very subtle differences between them, and the blocks are essentially interchangable. Either block could be used but depending on the combination that makes up the rotating assembly I might choose one over the other if only to facilitate the extent of block machining (decking) necessary. For example, if you happen to have the L2443 TRW dome tops in your engine, the stack height of the crank throw/rod/piston is 10.286". Since the C9VE block is dimensionally closer to that particular stack height over the D1VE I might opt for the C9VE block in this example. On the other hand, if we were looking to build a 900 hp engine, the sonic checking of the cylinders would have the final say and I'd deck whichever block however much as necessary (high hp takes precedent over the extent of the machining requirements). For a detailed description of block differences, click HERE.

    In my jet boat engine, I run straight 100LL AvGas and I tune pretty aggressively....more aggressively than I would dare suggest to most others. The fuel works well for detonation control.

    LO
    High Flow Dynamics
    Performance Components for the 429/460 Engine Family


    This post © Copyright 2007-2017 Paul Kane. No copying, linking, printing or otherwise without express written permission.

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