need some blown hat injection help pleaseeeee
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need some blown hat injection help pleaseeeee

  1. #1
    mo balls than $cents$ IMPATIENT 1's Avatar
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    Default need some blown hat injection help pleaseeeee

    my uncle runs a blown gas injected 540(8-71 making 10lbs boost ,bds blower) with a birdcatcher, 80a pump, runnin 112 pill. it ran awesome for the 1st season, then half way thru summer 06 he used some turbo blue fuel and left it in the tank?lines for @5months. from then on with the same pill, he could go wot, and it was kinda gutless, but as he started backing outta the throttle, it'd pick up the motor and gain rpms??? he tried pills 112-114 and all the 114 would do is make it black smoke flood at wot. he said when he got the injection set-up from good vibrations it worked perfect, no hick ups, nothing but great throttle response and all throttle performance.
    he swears it had something to do with the cool blue race fuel gummin something up. he's taken everything apart and cleaned it, sent the pump in to have the 80a check and was told it was fine. we made sure the tank was venting well, and that the return weren't close enough to the pickup to cause any supply issues to the pump.
    what should we try next? we just put this 540 setup in a tx-20 with a dropped keel and want all the power we can throw at this hull. any help would be appreciated, would really like to talk to someone over the tele who knows the ederle injection set-up well. thanx guys tom e.



    nutha question we're plumbing this thing in the jet hull and have 2 places to return too on the tank we wanna draw supply from. both are a half a tank away from the bung he had put in at the rear bottom of the tank to supply fuel to the 80a pump. is there any of the 3 fuel bypasses(pump bypass, idle bypass, main bypass) that we can tie in together on a 1/2 line to return into the tank? or is a must you give all 3 bypass returns they're own bung on the tank(ps, the hydro tank had all 3 seperately, so that wasn't the injection issue when the motor was in it)

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    Are you still making 10 lbs of boost as before?

    Changing from a 112 to a 114 pill is leaner (but very damn little)...yet black smoke?

    Have you tired another mag or checked all aspects of the ignition system?

    On the nutha question....first you need to tell me if the system is plumbed conventional Enderle.....because if it is the idle bypass and the main bypass are the same fuel line.
    Last edited by Fiat48; 04-19-2008 at 09:45 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiat48 View Post
    Are you still making 10 lbs of boost as before?

    Changing from a 112 to a 114 pill is leaner (but very damn little)...yet black smoke?

    Have you tired another mag or checked all aspects of the ignition system?
    as a matter of fact, he had some damn bosche platinums in it and i made fun of him for using them, its got a btm ignition set-up, blaster 3 coil, msd wires, and now has the correct ngk's for a blown pro 1 headed set-up, heat range should be right now. he's starting out using the same plug i ran last summer in my blown carb'd 475.
    i have talked with hass828 many times and even recently talked in person about high cylinder pressures blowing out those meesly ass bosche plugs he had in it. i really think it was possible. i'm a gm tech and have seen them cause misfires in vettes and other higher compression gm motors, only to pull em out and check resistance and find the plug has alot more resistance than the plug wire feeding it no good no goooood

    so are you thinkin high cylinder pressures, low spark quality like i am?

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    Thinking you have too much fuel (closing throttle picks up) or can't light it under load.
    Did you check the high speed bypass?

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    man, i'm honestly just learnin mechanical injection. injection set-ups that you can't watch fuel pressures confuses the hell outta a person who makes a living watching high fuel pressured f.i. motors. i understand they work by volume and not pressure but the bypasses and stuff are still kinda a mystery to me. can i have him call you sometimes? he has the system drawes out on paper that good vfibrations or enderle send out with the stuff.

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    Yeah well....constant flow is so simple it shouldn't work but it does.

    Conventional enderle plumbing:


    The main jet screws into the front of the main metering body. The main bypasses fuel any time the motor is running. The fuel comes out that brass check valve (should be a 2 lb check) and returns to the tank.
    So...there is one return line.

    Now if you have a high speed...that is just another bypass that is plumbed into your main supply line. That's just another brass can with a stiffer spring in it...prolly 65 lbs or so. System pressure opens that and fuel goes back to the tank.
    So that is the 2nd return line.

    A third return line would be a fuel shutoff line...and if needed you can tie the high speed return line with that if you only have 2 tank bungs.

    That is...if your are plumbed conventional. There are other ways the system can be plumbed. Check that yours is plumbed this way and if not....tell me or pictures of how it is plumbed.

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    the pic you posted up looks about right for his, let me look thru my computer and see if i have a pic of his.

    the system diagram they sent with his injection setup is what he plumbed in last time on the shovelnose and it worked great and was never changed up. we're just limited by saddle tanks now, so we're gonna prime and transfer with the lh tank, run the boat offa the rh tank that has 2 return spots, and now the new 1/2 bung he had installed at the bottom rear of the tank. the diagrahm shows 3 bypasses, i'll look for a pic to post.

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    can't get the pic to post without it goin to a log in page

    i'm lookin at a pic of his hat and i see something right behind the block like another bypass coming offa his pressure line to the inj distribution block. it has a bypass hose coming outta it. same metering block set-up, just has that other bypass coming offa the line to the injector feed line.

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    That should be the high speed bypass. It will be on the incoming line. Should have a stiff spring and a jet in it. Prolly 65lbs or more and 70 or so jet. That would be the line you could tie in with the fuel shutoff line.

    Another thought. Make sure the jet cans face the right way. The poppet valve toward the pressure. If put in backwards...no fuel bypasses. This might be your gremlin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiat48 View Post
    That should be the high speed bypass. It will be on the incoming line. Should have a stiff spring and a jet in it. Prolly 65lbs or more and 70 or so jet. That would be the line you could tie in with the fuel shutoff line.

    Another thought. Make sure the jet cans face the right way. The poppet valve toward the pressure. If put in backwards...no fuel bypasses. This might be your gremlin.
    thanx for helping out, that tie'n the lines will sure make this a smoother and cleaner plumbing job, he's tryin to do it in all stainless hardline, or braided where he has too.

    jet cans? is that on the meter block? he has messed with the system alot after the issue reared its head, and may have caused an issue when he cleaned things, might have put them in backwards?

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    Very easy to put them in backwards. Jet can is that brass looking thing in the picture. It's just a check valve....but it flows one way only.

    You can also use a loop line for the fuel shutoff. But don't use a loop line for the main or the high speed.
    http://www.goodvibesracing.com/inlet_loop_lines.htm
    Last edited by Fiat48; 04-19-2008 at 10:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiat48 View Post
    Very easy to put them in backwards. Jet can is that brass looking thing in the picture. It's just a check valve....but it flows one way only.
    oh, ok. so the bypass has a spring inside pointed towards the pressure, and the spring should be pushing up on the valve from the bottom, or bypass exit. so if the valve(i'm assuming a ball type?) is put in frt of the bypass exit, the valve would shut off the exit and nothing would leave thru it. kinda set-up like a header t-valve.

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    thanx for the help fiat, i'll go by his place tommorrow and personally take some pics, and take apart the bypass valves and take a look, see if their plugin themselves shut. that could be his trouble, the fuel went bad, he took it apart and put it back together with the high speed valve backwards, giving it too much fuel when the meter valve is calling for wot.

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    Take pics if you have questions.
    Poppet faces the pressure.
    Make sure main bypass check did not get swapped with high speed check.
    Main bypass (light spring) is the one you see in the picture.
    High speed is the other one you told me about that is plumbed on the injector hat inlet fuel line. That's the heavy spring.
    Last edited by Fiat48; 04-19-2008 at 11:44 PM.

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