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Turbo questions

  1. #1
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    Default Turbo questions

    I like a clean simple turbo instalation. The draw thru set up looks best to me but I realize that more power can be had if the fuel does not go through the turbo.

    How could I use the older style draw thru system with the intercooler on top of the intake manifold with an EFI system?

    Are there any drawbacks to running 2 throttle bodies rather than carbs? what about wastegates and blow off valves.

    Can someone explain how this would work?

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    No Sandbar To Far sanger rat's Avatar
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    You should post this in the Forced Induction section http://www.performanceboats.com//forumdisplay.php?f=36
    Quote Originally Posted by One More Year View Post
    The only blab's I will even be a part of is just when it is me they are talking about. Aaaah yes I can see a few good looking shiny tall deck motors on the beach, with barely enough fuel to get back to the launch saying, "Holy crap how fast you think that Daytona was going man? That's like the 20th time he's gone by today?"

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    Get the "Maximum Boost" book and read up on this.
    What you're asking for is somewhat contradictory.

    Turbos systems and EFI are seldom going to be simple looking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger View Post
    No one cares about your buddies old antiquated garden hose technology.
    Quote Originally Posted by MAXIMUS View Post
    I think I could run more boost but it's a real hand full right now

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unchained View Post
    Get the "Maximum Boost" book and read up on this.
    What you're asking for is somewhat contradictory.

    Turbos systems and EFI are seldom going to be simple looking.
    that fast easy efi system with the 4 injector throttle body sure looks clean and we'll handle boost now wont it? we touched on that in another thread, thought someone mentioned they could handle 10lbs of boost now???? maybe it was yb

    Dare to be different, if it turns out great you can claim you planned it that way.

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    who is the author of Maximum boost?

    My question is how do I run a throttle body on an old draw thru system so I can make the intercooler placement look clean by placing it on top of the engine.

    I see blow off valves on most turbo efi systems...how do I run throttle bodies in place of carbs on a draw thru system?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dnewps View Post
    who is the author of Maximum boost?

    My question is how do I run a throttle body on an old draw thru system so I can make the intercooler placement look clean by placing it on top of the engine.

    I see blow off valves on most turbo efi systems...how do I run throttle bodies in place of carbs on a draw thru system?
    you dont if you're efi'n a old draw thru set-up, then you put the throttle bodies between the ic and turbos the bov will go between the throttle body and turbos.

    corky bell is the author, and its a great read!!

    Dare to be different, if it turns out great you can claim you planned it that way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dnewps View Post
    who is the author of Maximum boost?
    My question is how do I run a throttle body on an old draw thru system so I can make the intercooler placement look clean by placing it on top of the engine.
    I see blow off valves on most turbo efi systems...how do I run throttle bodies in place of carbs on a draw thru system?
    Corky Bell is the author.
    All your questions will be answered in the book.

    Even if you did go EFI putting the throttle body on the compressor intake would be a mistake.
    There are only a handful of turbos that have a vaccuum seal on the compressor and they are usually smaller turbo's.

    These are the cleanest way to do it,



    If you need an intercooler put it on the floor behind the engine.

    The low profile looks nicer IMO, this one looks nice too,

    Who left those wads of black chewing gum on the intake manifold ?

    I'm just in the process of changing my pile to the low pro look too,
    How about this side draft 2 barrel setup ?

    It only stands 5" above the manifold.
    With E98 fuel I don't even need an intercooler anymore.
    Last edited by Unchained; 12-02-2010 at 10:26 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger View Post
    No one cares about your buddies old antiquated garden hose technology.
    Quote Originally Posted by MAXIMUS View Post
    I think I could run more boost but it's a real hand full right now

  10. #8
    gn7
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    Quote Originally Posted by IMPATIENT 1 View Post
    you dont if you're efi'n a old draw thru set-up, then you put the throttle bodies between the ic and turbos the bov will go between the throttle body and turbos.
    Wow. I can't believe you posted that. So it can't be done. No way to put the air control before the turbos? Your kidding right? No only can you, but if you do, you no longer need the BOV. Not saying its better, saying it can be, and IS being done very successfully. The only reason I would perfer not put the air controller on the inlet of the turbo is if it is also introducing the fuel. But just controlling the air intake, piece of cake and it works just fine. You have to get your mind off the blow thru thing Impatient. There are more than one way to skin a cat when using EFI.

    dnewps, there is no reason why you can't just remove the carb and replace it with a throttle body. It will work fine. It only a air controller. Same as the carb was. Only the throttle body doesn't have to meter fuel.
    Go with the biggest throttle body you can get your mits on though. Because the air passing thru it will be a atmosheric pressure, not under compression like down stream. But no matter, it will still flow more air than the single carb deal did.



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    Last edited by gn7; 12-02-2010 at 08:09 PM.

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    I was hoping to put the throttle on the turbo inlet. Couldnt get any technical backup on it. And reason tells me it would probably lend to lag. How much?

    Since the top fuel guys went away from hat throttles to a scoop and the throttles directly on the blower for quicker response. I will have to assume so.

    Not that I am not going to try it some day. But have to use at least some proven methods to start with.
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    What BOV is everyone using?
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  13. #11
    gn7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Infomaniac View Post
    I was hoping to put the throttle on the turbo inlet. Couldnt get any technical backup on it. And reason tells me it would probably lend to lag. How much?

    Since the top fuel guys went away from hat throttles to a scoop and the throttles directly on the blower for quicker response. I will have to assume so.

    Not that I am not going to try it some day. But have to use at least some proven methods to start with.
    I try not to look at what the TF guys are doing because their throttle response requirments are off my chart. My boat can't hit 100mph in a 100 ft. But as far as turbo lag itself, I don't see it unless the valve body is a long ways from the turbo. We have a saying in our industry, "If it can get out, it can't get in."
    There may be a slight throttle response issue between throttle open, then closed, then open right away. But it will be slight.

    In the early years of turbos at Indy, all of them were blown thru MFI deals and no BOVs. And they suffered from turbo stall anytime the throttle was closed. Smokey fixed that with the SBC program by moving the throttle to the inlet, and the impeller spins in a vacuum when the throttle is closed. Think about this. When the throttle is slammed on a down stream deal, unless the BOV has some controller on it that is driven by a throttle position sensor, the turbo will see at least the pressure the BOV is set for. But if not, that pressure will do all it can to stall the turbo. But if not, that pressure will do all it can to stall the turbo. With a upsteam arrangement, the turbo goes straight to a vacuum when the throttle is closed, and the impellor sees zero load. There is no air to load or stop the impellor.

    Seriously doubt if you were to drive a boat with each arrangement that you could detect the difference between the two. Carb arrangments are a different deal. They have to have BOVs because draw thru carb deals suck(sic).



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    Last edited by gn7; 12-02-2010 at 09:50 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    . With a upsteam arrangement, the turbo goes straight to a vacuum when the throttle is closed, .
    That's the problem.
    Very few turbo compressors have a vaccuum seal on the compressor. Only one's that were made specifically for a draw through carb and their all small turbo's.

    If you put a high vaccuum on one without a seal it will suck the oil out of the bearing housing.

    The setup I used at the sand drags back in the 80's was a draw through carb.
    When you slammed the throttle shut at high boost there was a big vaccuum spike and it had it's own unique sound when it slowed the turbo down REAL FAST.

    Twin Turbo 1800 HP V-Drive lake boat

    http://s621.photobucket.com/albums/t...t=MAH05771.mp4

    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger View Post
    No one cares about your buddies old antiquated garden hose technology.
    Quote Originally Posted by MAXIMUS View Post
    I think I could run more boost but it's a real hand full right now

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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    Carb arrangments are a different deal. They have to have BOVs because draw thru carb deals suck(sic).
    Draw through carb deals dont use a BOV.
    "if we keep doing it the same way we always do..we will always get the same results"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Infomaniac View Post
    What BOV is everyone using?
    I'm using a Tial Q blowoff. It supposedly flows more than any other valve on the market. Morris and alot of the street guys like the Big Red Procharger valve. But have you $$$ ready if you want one of those. They are a simple design. Just use a good brand as the E-Bay ones are not working. Paradise Racing gave me the best deal I could find on the Q. And Tial is top of the line stuff.
    "if we keep doing it the same way we always do..we will always get the same results"
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