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The Heads He Bought...

  1. #1
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    Default The Heads He Bought...

    The end of October I started the thread “What Cylinder Heads?”
    http://www.performanceboats.com/show...er-Heads/page2

    I just thought I would follow up and post what my brother purchased for his build. He stated that all your discussion and pointers were helpful in making his selection. In his own words:

    “AFR Heads won the battle and got my business. I was getting pretty
    comfortable with the idea of using RHS cast iron heads, but unfortunately RHS's tech support fell very short, matter of fact missed the bar entirely. I wanted detailed tech info about exhaust valve seats and port options, and the rep just didn't seem interested in providing it.

    Conversely, at AFR I hooked up with a guy named Jeremy (ext. 111) and he seemed to be design level knowledgeable about his product. They pretty much were able to build my heads to the spec I was looking for including the hard anodizing for the marine application. This was all it took to know I was in the right place, and I bought them. Part of the reason the AFR's seem to be on top of th power game in the tests is that the valves are rolled another 2degrees from the standard 24deg. I never knew this before.

    Don’t ever ask how much I paid for them, because I'll never tell... "

    Detail info:
    Bought 2 sets of AFR 2001 335cc full CNC ported alum heads through Flatlander Racing.

    - Hard Anodized
    - Inconnel exhaust valves
    - Flat Mill to get 114 chambers
    - 2 deg rolled valves
    - Springs for .632 Lift

    http://www.performanceboats.com/albu...hmentid=100641
    http://www.performanceboats.com/albu...hmentid=100639
    http://www.performanceboats.com/albu...hmentid=100640

    Doug

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    Quote Originally Posted by Real McCoy View Post
    The end of October I started the thread “What Cylinder Heads?”
    http://www.performanceboats.com/show...er-Heads/page2

    I just thought I would follow up and post what my brother purchased for his build. He stated that all your discussion and pointers were helpful in making his selection. In his own words:

    “AFR Heads won the battle and got my business. I was getting pretty
    comfortable with the idea of using RHS cast iron heads, but unfortunately RHS's tech support fell very short, matter of fact missed the bar entirely. I wanted detailed tech info about exhaust valve seats and port options, and the rep just didn't seem interested in providing it.

    Conversely, at AFR I hooked up with a guy named Jeremy (ext. 111) and he seemed to be design level knowledgeable about his product. They pretty much were able to build my heads to the spec I was looking for including the hard anodizing for the marine application. This was all it took to know I was in the right place, and I bought them. Part of the reason the AFR's seem to be on top of th power game in the tests is that the valves are rolled another 2degrees from the standard 24deg. I never knew this before.

    Don’t ever ask how much I paid for them, because I'll never tell... "

    Detail info:
    Bought 2 sets of AFR 2001 335cc full CNC ported alum heads through Flatlander Racing.

    - Hard Anodized
    - Inconnel exhaust valves
    - Flat Mill to get 114 chambers
    - 2 deg rolled valves
    - Springs for .632 Lift

    http://www.performanceboats.com/albu...hmentid=100641
    http://www.performanceboats.com/albu...hmentid=100639
    http://www.performanceboats.com/albu...hmentid=100640

    Doug
    Almost all aftermarket BB Chev heads these days are rolled 2*. I would not have picked that head for that combination. Great head for a 572 turning 7000rpm with a big solid roller.
    JMO
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    Distinguished Member David 519's Avatar
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    Your brother did the right thing in talking direct to the various mfg's (as I mentioned in the original thread). FWIW, I think he made a good choice on both mfg and head for his build. In fact, I chose the same head for a very similar build I'm doing right now. Best of luck and let us know how the motors turn out. Oh, and tell your bro not to worry about how much it cost, 'cause you can't put a price tag on a good time!!
    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    ....... David 519 is 100% correct........

    Quote Originally Posted by fuelinmyveins82 View Post
    .....I think people forget that racing is supposed to fun. Losing shouldn't be discouraging it should motivate you work on your pile to make it faster.....

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    I would have bought different pistons before flatmilling from 122cc down to 114cc-
    AFR also states that milling the heads also has an effect on flow-and it's not for the
    better! I know I'm not touchin' the cnc chambers on my 305's they're 122cc for a reason!although I am running a blower


    Out With The Old, In With The New.......Goodbye Blinding Acceleration, Hello Sustained High Speed (in comfort)

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    gn7
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    It almost excty the same engine as a ZZ572/620hp. And they come with
    GMPP/Edelbrock 315s And they used the same head for the 720 hp deal as well, and it redlines at 6750, and a .714 lift cam.
    Ever look at the price of Edelbrock marine heads. They give them a away. Hard coated, iconel exhaust.

    I am a little disappointed with AFR for recommenting a CNC head for a 5800 rpm marine deal, with a .632 cam. I bet there isn't 10HP diff at redline betwen them and th 325s that the 235s are cut from. If they wanted to sell a CNC'd head, I would have thought they would have gone wth the 315 CNC.



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    Last edited by gn7; 12-28-2010 at 12:39 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    It almost excty the same engine as a ZZ572/620hp. And they come with
    GMPP/Edelbrock 315s And they used the same head for the 720 hp deal as well, and it redlines at 6750, and a .714 lift cam.
    Ever look at the price of Edelbrock marine heads. They give them a away. Hard coated, iconel exhaust.

    I am a little disappointed with AFR for recommenting a CNC head for a 5800 rpm marine deal, with a .632 cam. I bet there isn't 10HP diff at redline betwen them and th 325s that the 235s are cut from. If they wanted to sell a CNC'd head, I would have thought they would have gone wth the 315 CNC.

    we almost bought some 335 cnc heads for our 565 build,but luckily i talked with some good people and researched were we wanted power and ended up going smaller.

    thanks to Steel

    never the less best of luck,nice heads,Travis
    WFLC


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    built by Scott Seastrom.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Real McCoy View Post
    I was getting pretty
    comfortable with the idea of using RHS cast iron heads, but unfortunately RHS's tech support fell very short, matter of fact missed the bar entirely. I wanted detailed tech info about exhaust valve seats and port options, and the rep just didn't seem interested in providing it.
    Doug
    You think this may be what happens when a cam company decides to go into the head business. And to make matters worse, the cam company is Comp. Lucky he got some one on the phone at all. And when he did, surprised they knew that they even sold heads.



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    Ya know I was reluctant to post the info because.....

    Oh never mind, I will let you all know how it works when he gets the boat in the water this spring.

    Doug

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    Quote Originally Posted by Real McCoy View Post
    Ya know I was reluctant to post the info because.....

    Oh never mind, I will let you all know how it works when he gets the boat in the water this spring.

    Doug

    B/c what we didn't tell you want you wanted to Hear

    makes no difference in the end factor,they are nice heads just in most of our .02 worth to big.

    Best of luck.
    WFLC


    2011 Performer SS
    built by Scott Seastrom.

  12. #10
    gn7
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    McCoy, the heads will work just fine. Specially considering its a 30ft'r with 2 572s. I seriously doubt he will feel any lack of low end response.
    Just a little surprised that was the choice AFR made considering the cam and RPM. Allow me to explain.The cam spends waaaay more time from .100 thru .500 , than it does at the max lift of .632. Its only at max lift for the amount of time it takes for the lifter to go over the nose. The valve is almost always in a state of opening or closing. Now look at the flows of the 315 CNC and the 335 CNC. and tell me where the the 335 starts kicking the 315s ass. Add in the fact that the port velocity will be higher with the 315s and you start to see this might just be a better head for that use, at that RPM. This is why I am a little set back by AFRs choice. If you took the 335 head to a cam designer, the cam wouldn't look like the one you have. If you took the 315s to a cam guy, it would look alot closer to your cam.

    315 CNC


    335 CNC


    Does what I said make any sense to you?

    But they are a long ways from being a bad choice. Throw in the fact that AFR is able to custom build them for your use, and their quality is excellant, he made a good decision.



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    hotbo and gn7,
    I made that comment above pretty much tongue in cheek. I have read the forum enough to know that the replies won't always agree with choices me or my brother may make. The cool thing is that there is usually some great discussion and I usually end up learning something.

    GN7,
    Thanks for your explanation above. I see exactly what you are saying, by the graphs you posted he won't get anymore flow out of the 335s up through the max lift of his cam (.632). He would need to be in the .700 to .800 area to take advantage of the increased flow.

    On the other hand it doesn't seem that it will hurt him much if any with the bigger port. Knowing my brother, though he didn't say so, he is probably thinking of the next upgrade - he never leaves anything alone. Speculation on my part but once he gets the boat squared away he may be thinking more cam and other performance enhancers.

    Thanks for all the feed back.
    Doug

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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    McCoy, the heads will work just fine. Specially considering its a 30ft'r with 2 572s. I seriously doubt he will feel any lack of low end response.
    Just a little surprised that was the choice AFR made considering the cam and RPM. Allow me to explain.The cam spends waaaay more time from .100 thru .500 , than it does at the max lift of .632. Its only at max lift for the amount of time it takes for the lifter to go over the nose. The valve is almost always in a state of opening or closing. Now look at the flows of the 315 CNC and the 335 CNC. and tell me where the the 335 starts kicking the 315s ass. Add in the fact that the port velocity will be higher with the 315s and you start to see this might just be a better head for that use, at that RPM. This is why I am a little set back by AFRs choice. If you took the 335 head to a cam designer, the cam wouldn't look like the one you have. If you took the 315s to a cam guy, it would look alot closer to your cam.

    315 CNC


    335 CNC


    Does what I said make any sense to you?

    But they are a long ways from being a bad choice. Throw in the fact that AFR is able to custom build them for your use, and their quality is excellant, he made a good decision.
    While a long way from a bad choice, I'm going to disagree and say they're a long way from a good choice. You made a great point about where that 315 kicks the 335's butt, and that where it does, it's a moot point in this app. Your opening sentence I'm going to adamantly disagree with.
    This application will never take advantage of those 335's, but will definitely be at a disadvantage in 99% of where these engines will operate. I'm guessing that at the rpm these engines will run, even at max, there is no performance gain to be had with the 335's even over the 295's. The average torque/hp will be down for sure. Idle quality and docking manners will suffer, as well as part throttle cruise. Efficiency and fuel consumption's going to suffer as well...all for very little, if any performance gain. The port area and valve size are just way overkill for this application.
    Last edited by scott foxwell; 12-29-2010 at 09:05 AM.
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    On a side note, cam lift isnt as big a deal as duration...

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    Quote Originally Posted by steelcomp View Post
    While a long way from a bad choice, I'm going to disagree and say they're a long way from a good choice. You made a great point about where that 315 kicks the 335's butt, and that where it does, it's a moot point in this app. Your opening sentence I'm going to adamantly disagree with.
    This application will never take advantage of those 335's, but will definitely be at a disadvantage in 99% of where these engines will operate. I'm guessing that at the rpm these engines will run, even at max, there is no performance gain to be had with the 335's even over the 295's. The average torque/hp will be down for sure. Idle quality and docking manners will suffer, as well as part throttle cruise. Efficiency and fuel consumption's going to suffer as well...all for very little, if any performance gain. The port area and valve size are just way overkill for this application.
    I saw that. You just better at telling the way it is reguardless of the pain than I am. You would be a busier oncologist than I would be. You would be "your gunna die sucka" NEXT!, and I would be trying to tell them it might possibly be OK.

    Your right, but I didn't have the heart to even bring in the 295 CNC.

    Hey, they could have been 357s



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    Last edited by gn7; 12-29-2010 at 11:04 AM.

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