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Would this engine be a good base

  1. #15
    steelcomp was here
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warlock1 View Post
    Thanks for the info Steel, so if I have to replace the rods and the pistons and get a crank, then none of these engines are worth buying since I can't use what is there. I would also feel better with a forged bottom end because I am usually at wide open since I am so much slower than the other boats in my crew
    I was hoping one of these blocks would actually have forged crank and rods that I could just clean up and reuse. I was going to replace pistons anyhow.
    And yes I am ditching the MPI and going with a carb.
    I do have the stock exhaust, but I dont want to build it to the stock exhaust, because when the original engine sells I will pick up a set of performance headers.
    Honestly, if you can get the Vortec for 600, the block alone is worth almost that. I don;t know which Gen6's came with forged cranks and which didn't, but the crank Nelson is talking about has been nicely detailed and balanced for 4.500 pistons which means you still have some counter weight to work with and wouldn't have to add metal.
    Last edited by scott foxwell; 04-05-2011 at 03:56 PM.
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  3. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warlock1 View Post
    ok I got three call backs, and this is what they offered
    98 Vortec from Suburban 600.00 this one runs
    86 454 block number 14015445, heads 14081045 400.00 long block
    85 454 block number 361959, heads 336781 550.00 long block

    Again all I want is around 500hp. I plan on roller cam, single 4 barrel to keep costs down. I'll gasket match the heads and attempt an obnoxious001 block prep.

    Which is the best choice? I'll be removing my engine and selling it as a take out. 98 7.4 MPI so I will have to buy all accessories.
    is your 98 7.4 a gen 6?
    #55

  4. #17
    Senior Member Warlock1's Avatar
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    Nelson - pm me a price and maybe I can get someone to bring it to DS for me.
    Futs - because this is a base 7.4L 330 hp engine. It runs good but 0 performance anything to it. Plus I was told as a running take out 2500-3k is what its worth. That would get me my exhaust.
    Outlaw - I will have to check the paperwork
    So if Gen 6's came with 4bolt mains and forged cranks, all I would need is pistons and a good set of 781's or 990's.
    Is there a way to tell externally if its a 4 bolt with a forged crank?

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  6. #18
    gn7
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    L29 7.4 Vortec have cast cranks, and pistons, and forged rods. L21 7.4 Vortecs have forged rods,crank and pistons. The easiest way to tell the diiference is the L21 has coil near plug and the L29 don't.

    I would seriously consider dropping a forged 4.25 stroker rotating assembly in the block you have.
    I bet there isn't 2 cents difference between the 7.4 MPI you currently have, and the 98 7400 Vortec your looking at.
    If your looking at never upgrading the HP on the deal later, a cast steel Scat crank, and Scat I beam Procomp rods, with Mahle or KB forged pistons will be more than strong enough for an outdrive deal with its limited RPM capabilites.
    Have the heads done as Steel recommended. There are worse heads out there than the Vortecs. Possibly consider a single plane manifold with the larger engine. My choice for a carb would be a Holley 950. Not because it flows more than a 850, because it doesn't, but because the throttle response and the metering on a single plain manifold are vastly better than the Holley 850.



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  7. #19
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    At 500hp I wouldn't worry about a forged crank.... You will probably break your outdrive long before a cast crank...... Cast cranks are good for 600hp to 700hp easy. If ITS A CAST CHEVY crank. I would buy the mark4 with the 781's get those babies ported and add some big valves and be done. Cast crank dimple rods and some good forged pistons with the "right" cam your set. Save your $$ for an XR or better.

  8. #20
    Senior Member Futs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warlock1 View Post
    Futs - because this is a base 7.4L 330 hp engine. It runs good but 0 performance anything to it. Plus I was told as a running take out 2500-3k is what its worth. That would get me my exhaust.
    Well what do you think the other blocks your looking at were rated at? I really think your wasting some money on starting with a whole nother block ect... You have everything you need on your current engine to yeild a 500 hp deal. The crank you have in the engine now will support 500 hp no problem. Invest in some good rods and forged pistons, Get a set of better heads and away you go. Cam, lifters, induction ect. 500 hp is soooo easy todo these days with cam profiles and a little head work. Do a little research.

    You said selling your engine now for say 3k? What about an oil pan,ignition,ect? You going to have to buy all new if you sell all the old. Trust me, engine builds get way out of control FAST!!!!!

    It's your money, do what you like, but IMO, your just wasting alot of money starting over.

  9. #21
    Senior Member slow67's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    Not because it flows more than a 850
    You do realize the 950 is a marketing ploy right? Its really a 750 main body with an 850 baseplate.

  10. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by slow67 View Post
    Its really a 750 main body with an 850 baseplate.
    Thus the improvement in air/fuel flow quality and response. Sometimes quality of the air and fuel flow mixture is more beneficial than the quantity IMO

    Gear

  11. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gearhead View Post
    Thus the improvement in air/fuel flow quality and response. Sometimes quality of the air and fuel flow mixture is more beneficial than the quantity IMO

    Gear
    True, but I like the 850 with annular boosters. At that point its probably a wash between them (since annular boosters hurt airflow a little).

  12. #24
    steelcomp was here
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    Quote Originally Posted by PS&B1 View Post
    At 500hp I wouldn't worry about a forged crank.... You will probably break your outdrive long before a cast crank...... Cast cranks are good for 600hp to 700hp easy. If ITS A CAST CHEVY crank. I would buy the mark4 with the 781's get those babies ported and add some big valves and be done. Cast crank dimple rods and some good forged pistons with the "right" cam your set. Save your $$ for an XR or better.
    The only thing I can say in disagreement with this is to remember that these off shore deals tend to run at or near peak torque for long periods of time which is about the most destructive thing you can do to an engine. It's not about how much power they'll handle, it's about how much abuse and harmonics they can withstand. If you;re pushing the crank's power limit and subjecting it to these kinds of abusive forces, you're pushing the limit beyond reliability IMO.
    Just something to consider.
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelcomp View Post
    The only thing I can say in disagreement with this is to remember that these off shore deals tend to run at or near peak torque for long periods of time which is about the most destructive thing you can do to an engine. It's not about how much power they'll handle, it's about how much abuse and harmonics they can withstand. If you;re pushing the crank's power limit and subjecting it to these kinds of abusive forces, you're pushing the limit beyond reliability IMO.
    Just something to consider.
    Cast crank and a 2 bolt at 500hp hes fine! I realize it's not "IDEAL" but He really should shouldn't worry about either. After a couple of outdrives he will be glad he saved his cash.

  14. #26
    cfm
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    500hp BBC should not eat Bravo drives, unless he keeps banging it into gear at higher rpms. The Bravo's live plenty long behind 500-600hp502's.

    Interesting that you guys (Steelcomp + GN7) are leaning toward a forged crank in this build after that whole mess we where in (not too long ago) on that big thread that focused for a while on cast/cast steel/forged cranks. This statement is not emotionally geared from that other thread but want to hear more thoughts why a forged would be better here.

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