Blown gas w/ carbs
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Blown gas w/ carbs

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    Senior Member wizbang's Avatar
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    Default Blown gas w/ carbs

    A friend is going to dyno a BBC , it has meth and water injection along with a TBS intercooler ?

    How much intake temp should he be seeing ?

    Got any ideas ?

    2x4 carbs , not sure what they are, Holley's of some kind.

    19% over w/ a 14-71 Mooneyham

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    steelcomp was here
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    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang View Post
    A friend is going to dyno a BBC , it has meth and water injection along with a TBS intercooler ?

    How much intake temp should he be seeing ?

    Got any ideas ?

    2x4 carbs , not sure what they are, Holley's of some kind.

    19% over w/ a 14-71 Mooneyham
    540/1471, 13# boost @ 6700 (9%over) on the dyno with about 80* water going through a super chiller, we were seeing almost 180*. 1065hp.
    If God is your co-pilot, change seats!
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    gn7
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    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang View Post
    A friend is going to dyno a BBC , it has meth and water injection along with a TBS intercooler ?

    How much intake temp should he be seeing ?

    Got any ideas ?

    2x4 carbs , not sure what they are, Holley's of some kind.

    19% over w/ a 14-71 Mooneyham
    8-71 @ 12 lbs about 150* with 60* water.
    With the injection going, its anybody's guess. The turbo guys could probably give you some idea of the drop from that.

    wizzer, you have to know the water temp going into the chiller. Other wise the question becomes: how strong is strong, and how heavy is heavy.



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    Highaboosta Unchained's Avatar
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    Are you guys referring to intake AIR temp or the water temp leaving the intercooler ?
    The reason I ask is those numbers would be a real high intercooled IAT with such low boost.

    With intercoolers there's always going to be a heat soak time involved,
    The IAT will start out at the same temp as the cooling water and as the boost hits it, it takes time to raise the IAT to a point of leveling off.

    Here's a datalog of IAT showing the temp rise,


    An effective intercooler will take around 100 degrees out of the intake air temp depending on how long it's at WOT, how large the lines are, and how effective the core is. Blower intercooler cores are usually pretty thin and I would not expect them to be as effective as a stand alone intercooler.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger View Post
    No one cares about your buddies old antiquated garden hose technology.
    Quote Originally Posted by MAXIMUS View Post
    I think I could run more boost but it's a real hand full right now

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    Senior Member wizbang's Avatar
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    They ran the water into the cooler right from the hose bib, not sure on the water temp of that water ?

    The intake temp was in the 125-130 range , made 1225 ish on pump gas, added a 250 shot of n20 and made 1490 ish , heated the bottle up and it made 1529 ??????????

    The n20 got the intake temp to 118 or so.

    13 lbs boost , it had 34 % over, this is a 632 cu in thing,.
    Last edited by wizbang; 05-11-2011 at 12:18 AM.

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    gn7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unchained View Post
    Are you guys referring to intake AIR temp or the water temp leaving the intercooler ?
    The reason I ask is those numbers would be a real high intercooled IAT with such low boost.

    With intercoolers there's always going to be a heat soak time involved,
    The IAT will start out at the same temp as the cooling water and as the boost hits it, it takes time to raise the IAT to a point of leveling off.

    Here's a datalog of IAT showing the temp rise,


    An effective intercooler will take around 100 degrees out of the intake air temp depending on how long it's at WOT, how large the lines are, and how effective the core is. Blower intercooler cores are usually pretty thin and I would not expect them to be as effective as a stand alone intercooler.
    Unchained, your mixing turbo and roots inner coolers in the same bowl. Bad move. Like cats and dogs.
    First, a turbo produces boost pressure in the valute scroll, and the air passes over the inner cooler in a compressed heated state. Notice the cross sectional reduction in the scroll? And the exchanger tends to be a little larger in overall surface area than a superchiller, and the air passes thru at a much lower velocitw ith a mnuch great delta T.

    A roots does very little compression in the case, its done by pushing air into the manifold faster than it leaves. Boost is really built up in the manifold, and the majority of the heat is built up in the manifold, after the air has passed the excharger. Its easy to strip 100* out of the air when the delta T is that great. But the delta T across a Superchiller with a roots sittin on it isn't as high as many think. The air was really only heated form the friction of moving thru the blower case.

    Up next, we will compare citrus fruit to apples, boys and girls, and deisel engine too gas



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    Highaboosta Unchained's Avatar
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    So how do you guys measure and datalog IAT with a roots blower setup ?
    It seems like an IAT sensor would not like fuel.

    I have heard of guys reading the water temp leaving the core but that's not telling you what the IAT is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger View Post
    No one cares about your buddies old antiquated garden hose technology.
    Quote Originally Posted by MAXIMUS View Post
    I think I could run more boost but it's a real hand full right now

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    steelcomp was here
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unchained View Post
    So how do you guys measure and datalog IAT with a roots blower setup ?
    It seems like an IAT sensor would not like fuel.

    I have heard of guys reading the water temp leaving the core but that's not telling you what the IAT is.
    we put the probe in one of the injector nozzle ports in the intake. That was measuring air temp right at the port enterance.
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    gn7
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    never used anything that measured IAT that was bothered by the fuel. I don't care if the fuel effects the temp reading, its still my IAT. I have used 3 wire RDT sensors in every imaginable fluid, including acid for making printed circuit boards. You just need the right one.
    I can't see why a thermocouple used for EGTs would be bothered by a little fuel.

    Surprised that you find the IATs high for an inter cooled roots. Aren't you of the contingent that thinks roots are nothing more than inefficient air heaters.



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    Last edited by gn7; 05-11-2011 at 12:18 PM.

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    Highaboosta Unchained's Avatar
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    Ok I see you use a EGT thermocouple.
    I can see where that would not be affected by any fuels.

    The only IAT sensor I ever used was one of these GM types,
    GM Open Element IAT Sensor with Pigtail DIYAutoTune.com

    Twin Turbo 1800 HP V-Drive lake boat

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger View Post
    No one cares about your buddies old antiquated garden hose technology.
    Quote Originally Posted by MAXIMUS View Post
    I think I could run more boost but it's a real hand full right now

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    Senior Member wizbang's Avatar
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    Hmmmmm ?
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  14. #12
    gn7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unchained View Post
    Ok I see you use a EGT thermocouple.
    I can see where that would not be affected by any fuels.

    The only IAT sensor I ever used was one of these GM types,
    GM Open Element IAT Sensor with Pigtail DIYAutoTune.com
    Yeah, and I can see why you do. They are cheap, and plentifull. I would use them as well if I was running an EFI. You would be crazy not to. I use GM temp sensors for my oil and water to my Racepac for the very same reason. At the same time, we are buying 10-12 platinum RDTs a week for jobs, and every so often, there is a spare


    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang View Post
    A friend is going to dyno a BBC , [COLOR=
    "red"]it has meth and water injection [/COLOR]along with a TBS intercooler ?
    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang View Post
    They ran the water into the cooler right from the hose bib, not sure on the water temp of that water ?

    The intake temp was in the 125-130 range , made 1225 ish on pump gas, added a 250 shot of n20 and made 1490 ish , heated the bottle up and it made 1529 ??????????

    The n20 got the intake temp to 118 or so.
    Wizbang, did you get that name from Wizzing in your HarveyWallbangers?
    You start the thread with a meth/water injector, and bam, its sucking a 250 HP shot of sub zero NOS. WTF! Do I need to have Charlie have a little chat with you?



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    Senior Member wizbang's Avatar
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    Sorry GN, not my deal, I just loaned them some pullies. I think it was like 1225-1250 before the freeze.

    It is in some lake boat w/ a pump out the back ?

  16. #14
    gn7
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    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang View Post
    Sorry GN, not my deal, I just loaned them some pullies. I think it was like 1225-1250 before the freeze.

    It is in some lake boat w/ a pump out the back ?
    Yeah yeah yeah. Charlie warned me about you. He said you weren't wound all that tight. I understand they only keep you around for entertainment purposes. You guys should be ashamed and pull this thread off the boards in disgrace. Cyclone took a junk yard pickup truck motor, ran a hand file thru the ports, stuffed a comp cams hyd roller in it, a couple of turbos from a C&O Allegheny locomotive, and made 1200+. No freeze!!!! You guys are amatuers!



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