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t&d rocker arm geometry help needed

  1. #43
    steelcomp was here
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  3. #44
    senior member turbo wog's Avatar
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    i read an article about the geometry that made sense. if i compensate for centering the tip of the roller & get the geometry off it will put a bigger sweep across the valve & wind up near the same spot anyway & i will loose lift. i am gonna go & mess with it now ,thanks guys.

  4. #45
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    Default T&D Rockers

    If you live in Sacramento your about 3 hours from the T&D facility, pack your stuff up and go see them, I’m sure they will be more than delighted to get you in the right direction. The aftermath of an engine failure at 8,000 rpm’s is total destruction of everything imaginable. Although it has been mentioned, I feel it is important to say it again, a minimum radius of 210 on the push rod at the rocker is mandatory looking at the angle you are showing. Best of luck to you.

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  6. #46
    gn7
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    The very fact that you have that much travel across the valve tip screams bad geometry. When it is correct, it will be minimal, regardless of where on the valve it is.

    At the top of the "on the dyno" front page, is a sticky called links and tech info. This is post #11. It one of Steelcomp's original threads on rocker geometry. I put it there awhile ago because I got tired of hunting it down every time this came up. It shows stud mounted rockers, but the idea is still the same.

    LINK: Steelcomp's rocker geo thread



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  7. #47
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    working on it
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  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbo wog View Post
    working on it
    You need to trash the pushrod with the hose(and get that valve spring checker off of there) and get a set of adjusable pushrods, then put some light checking springs on both valves. Set lash and roll the engine over with a dial indicator setup on the retainer, measure total lift and divide by two , then roll the engine over to your figure of half the total lift, adjust the pushrod out till you are at 90 * from the center of the trunion through the center of the roller tip and down the valve. Once you think your there, reset lash, remeasure total lift, find 50% lift again while rotating the engine and confirm your angles. Keep doing this till you are satisfied that you have the proper setup then pull the pushrods and measure them , order some new ones.

    ps , dont forget to have the adjusters on the T&D's in the middle of the travel that they ask for because they dont allow an extreme amount of adjustment or they'll shut off oil flow to the rocker.
    Last edited by Hass828; 05-26-2011 at 06:05 AM.
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  9. #49
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    I understand the 'how' of the mid lift deal, why is it necessary?

    "Because a deviation from that angle results in

    'less valve lift than cam specs and valve open and closing rates different than cam spec and doesn't affect duration"?

    And
    Where the roller runs on the valve tip is a function of trunnion to roller tip distance and overall valve length and as long as it doesn't run off the edge, it's ok...


    "Running off center will not cause excessive guide wear, the roller tip can't push the valve sideways and the width
    of the tip is is narrow enough that pushing off center doesn't matter."

    Am i close?
    thanx
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  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hass828 View Post
    You need to trash the pushrod with the hose(and get that valve spring checker off of there) and get a set of adjusable pushrods, then put some light checking springs on both valves. Set lash and roll the engine over with a dial indicator setup on the retainer, measure total lift and divide by two , then roll the engine over to your figure of half the total lift, adjust the pushrod out till you are at 90 * from the center of the trunion through the center of the roller tip and down the valve. Once you think your there, reset lash, remeasure total lift, find 50% lift again while rotating the engine and confirm your angles. Keep doing this till you are satisfied that you have the proper setup then pull the pushrods and measure them , order some new ones.

    ps , dont forget to have the adjusters on the T&D's in the middle of the travel that they ask for because they dont allow an extreme amount of adjustment or they'll shut off oil flow to the rocker.
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  11. #51
    senior member turbo wog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hass828 View Post
    You need to trash the pushrod with the hose(and get that valve spring checker off of there) and get a set of adjusable pushrods, then put some light checking springs on both valves. Set lash and roll the engine over with a dial indicator setup on the retainer, measure total lift and divide by two , then roll the engine over to your figure of half the total lift, adjust the pushrod out till you are at 90 * from the center of the trunion through the center of the roller tip and down the valve. Once you think your there, reset lash, remeasure total lift, find 50% lift again while rotating the engine and confirm your angles. Keep doing this till you are satisfied that you have the proper setup then pull the pushrods and measure them , order some new ones.

    ps , dont forget to have the adjusters on the T&D's in the middle of the travel that they ask for because they dont allow an extreme amount of adjustment or
    thanks for the tip i did not know that.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hass828 View Post
    You need to trash the pushrod with the hose(and get that valve spring checker off of there) and get a set of adjusable pushrods, then put some light checking springs on both valves. Set lash and roll the engine over with a dial indicator setup on the retainer, measure total lift and divide by two , then roll the engine over to your figure of half the total lift, adjust the pushrod out till you are at 90 * from the center of the trunion through the center of the roller tip and down the valve. Once you think your there, reset lash, remeasure total lift, find 50% lift again while rotating the engine and confirm your angles. Keep doing this till you are satisfied that you have the proper setup then pull the pushrods and measure them , order some new ones.

    ps , dont forget to have the adjusters on the T&D's in the middle of the travel that they ask for because they dont allow an extreme amount of adjustment or they'll shut off oil flow to the rocker.
    this is my first time doing the valve geometry & boy did i pick a pain in the arse to start with.learning alot though.

  13. #53
    gn7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sold honda.bought hondo View Post
    I understand the 'how' of the mid lift deal, why is it necessary?

    "Because a deviation from that angle results in

    'less valve lift than cam specs and valve open and closing rates different than cam spec and doesn't affect duration"?

    And
    Where the roller runs on the valve tip is a function of trunnion to roller tip distance and overall valve length and as long as it doesn't run off the edge, it's ok...


    "Running off center will not cause excessive guide wear, the roller tip can't push the valve sideways and the width
    of the tip is is narrow enough that pushing off center doesn't matter."

    Am i close?
    thanx
    Thats pretty much the just of it. It does effect came timing events. Not so much the duration, but the "when"
    When it is right, there can be somewhat less stress on the rockers and PR also.



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  14. #54
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    Thanx
    "A liberal paradise would be a place where everybody has
    guaranteed employment, free comprehensive healthcare, free
    education, free food, free housing, free clothing, free
    utilities, and only law enforcement has guns. And believe it or
    not, such a place does, indeed, exist: It's called prison."

    Sheriff Joe Arpaio
    Maricopa County Sheriff's Office

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