Valve Springs who is right Crane Cams or SSRE
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Valve Springs who is right Crane Cams or SSRE

  1. #1
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    Default Valve Springs who is right Crane Cams or SSRE

    I bought a new Dart 540 short block from Shafiroff + Dart Pro 1 heads
    The heads had Isky springs with 140/ 380 lbs springs
    The cam is Crane HR #139021 with 610 / 632 and 234 /242 and the spring requirement is
    closed 150 lb open 466
    I have Crane cam , lifters and springs for the application - changed the Iskys
    I also have valve train rattle at idle
    The advice I'm getting is the springs are too strong
    What do you think?
    Application
    3200 lb Placecraft Jet boat - AA Legend jet - 6000 RPM limiter

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    Can't re-Member 28Eliminator's Avatar
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    Hydraulic rollers make a lot of noise..
    I'd agree with you, but then we would both be wrong

  4. #3
    cfm
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    A little history.

    Crane has supplied Mercruiser for there HP500, 500EFI, 525 EFI's for ever. There cams, valvesprings, retainers, locks, lifters, and roller rockers. Crane has learned a ton over the years. Reason for mentioning thoder motors in particular is because your cam has lobes from some of the above.

    So.............Crane knows their cams/lobes in a marine environment better than most.

    Going back in history , Crane used lesser psi springs (like you have) in the Merc motors and the dependability wasn't all that great. Broken springs was common near the 150-200hr mark. Valve float became too common within these hrs. People where upgrading too better springs on their own...after the fact of course. Worked great. Crane then starting experimenting with higher rate springs all the way up to 200 or 210psi closed. Past where many, including themselves, thought HR's could handle. Tests where successful...Thus for all these reasons why they recommend what they do now.

    People and companies not very involved with marine engines haven't learned all this yet and chances are they will start off with what seems to work okay in cars.

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    cfm
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    Sorry, just re-read your post. I answered above thinking you where asking which to use. You used the Crane springs.


    What roller rockers are you using ? What oil weight and type ? What are your oil temps when the clattering is happening ? What valve covers are you using? How did you determine your pushrod length ? Are your rockers centered on the valve ? How much pre-load did you set the rockers/pushrods at ?

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    Senior Member Hullshot's Avatar
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    spring rates seem fine for a Hydraulic roller. what kind of preload did you put on them when setting and are they new?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 28Eliminator View Post
    Hydraulic rollers make a lot of noise..
    X2.
    The springs you have are a minimum. I know with Morels you can run 200#/500# to well over 6000 rpm if your cam permits. IMO your cam is a little on the short side for a jet boat with a 540 and Pro1's, even with a AA. Jets don't really care much about "marine". Also, which Pro1's?
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    Default Thanks for the good feed back

    I was aware of Crane supplying Merc & thats why I picked them. Crane support recommended the cam I bought after I gave them them application specs. I pulled the weaker springs and am running the Crane 150 / 466. Crane Hyd Roller lifters. Crower SS Enduro 1.7 rockers. Used an adjustable push rod checkers to get pushrod length. Rollers are on valve stem ctrs. Set lifters with intake off - rollers on cam heel - finger twisted pushrod while turning adjuster nut to achieve zero lash then added 3/4 turn. Pro ones are 325 - inconel ex valve upgrade. Valve covers are tall aluminum marine from CP performance
    The noise isn't a loose lifter sound but kind of a machine drone - at idle. Using a hose in the ear in the open space in the intake manifold it is the same from the front to back. Intake Victor JR - 850 marine Holley. Everything is new with 1 day on the dyno + 3 hrs. Oil Joe Gibbs 20- 50 break in oil , will change to Syn in another 6 hrs. We didn't notice the sound on the dyno - door shut and oil may have never been up to full temp. I have an oil temp gage and run 225 deg after it warms up. I can live with the sound just thought odd for hyd lifters. I looked at spring recommendation from Comp Cams & Isky for similar profiles and their recommendation was for weaker springs - way weaker. The pump has new thrust bearing & bowl bushings - sounds not coming from there. 10 -1 compression MSD Pro Billet dist . Thanks again for your knowledge

  10. #8
    steelcomp was here
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    Quote Originally Posted by 22HotKt View Post
    I was aware of Crane supplying Merc & thats why I picked them. Crane support recommended the cam I bought after I gave them them application specs. I pulled the weaker springs and am running the Crane 150 / 466. Crane Hyd Roller lifters. Crower SS Enduro 1.7 rockers. Used an adjustable push rod checkers to get pushrod length. Rollers are on valve stem ctrs. Set lifters with intake off - rollers on cam heel - finger twisted pushrod while turning adjuster nut to achieve zero lash then added 3/4 turn. Pro ones are 325 - inconel ex valve upgrade. Valve covers are tall aluminum marine from CP performance
    The noise isn't a loose lifter sound but kind of a machine drone - at idle. Using a hose in the ear in the open space in the intake manifold it is the same from the front to back. Intake Victor JR - 850 marine Holley. Everything is new with 1 day on the dyno + 3 hrs. Oil Joe Gibbs 20- 50 break in oil , will change to Syn in another 6 hrs. We didn't notice the sound on the dyno - door shut and oil may have never been up to full temp. I have an oil temp gage and run 225 deg after it warms up. I can live with the sound just thought odd for hyd lifters. I looked at spring recommendation from Comp Cams & Isky for similar profiles and their recommendation was for weaker springs - way weaker. The pump has new thrust bearing & bowl bushings - sounds not coming from there. 10 -1 compression MSD Pro Billet dist . Thanks again for your knowledge
    I'll ask again...which Pro one's?
    I can just about guarantee your pushrods are way too short, and FYI...if those are new Crane lifters, they're not the same as the good "old" Crane lifter.
    Last edited by scott foxwell; 06-06-2011 at 09:39 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 22HotKt View Post
    I was aware of Crane supplying Merc & thats why I picked them. Crane support recommended the cam I bought after I gave them them application specs. I pulled the weaker springs and am running the Crane 150 / 466. Crane Hyd Roller lifters. Crower SS Enduro 1.7 rockers. Used an adjustable push rod checkers to get pushrod length. Rollers are on valve stem ctrs. Set lifters with intake off - rollers on cam heel - finger twisted pushrod while turning adjuster nut to achieve zero lash then added 3/4 turn. Pro ones are 325 - inconel ex valve upgrade. Valve covers are tall aluminum marine from CP performance
    The noise isn't a loose lifter sound but kind of a machine drone - at idle. Using a hose in the ear in the open space in the intake manifold it is the same from the front to back. Intake Victor JR - 850 marine Holley. Everything is new with 1 day on the dyno + 3 hrs. Oil Joe Gibbs 20- 50 break in oil , will change to Syn in another 6 hrs. We didn't notice the sound on the dyno - door shut and oil may have never been up to full temp. I have an oil temp gage and run 225 deg after it warms up. I can live with the sound just thought odd for hyd lifters. I looked at spring recommendation from Comp Cams & Isky for similar profiles and their recommendation was for weaker springs - way weaker. The pump has new thrust bearing & bowl bushings - sounds not coming from there. 10 -1 compression MSD Pro Billet dist . Thanks again for your knowledge
    Auh... This sounds suspect !!! ... I think I will let Scott or Gn-7 handle this .... E
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelcomp View Post
    I'll ask again...which Pro one's?
    I can just about guarantee your pushrods are way too short.

    You can type faster than me , dammit .lol ... E
    [QUOTE=J Shelfo; My all time favorite quote; Flatbottoms are like shopping carts, every once in a while, you get a good one.....

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    gn7
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    Quote Originally Posted by 22HotKt View Post
    Used an adjustable push rod checkers to get pushrod length. Rollers are on valve stem ctrs. Set lifters with intake off - rollers on cam heel - finger twisted pushrod while turning adjuster nut to achieve zero lash then added 3/4 turn. Pro ones are 325 - inconel ex valve upgrade. Valve covers are tall aluminum marine from CP performance
    The noise isn't a loose lifter sound but kind of a machine drone - at idle.
    Did you use one of these high dollar whiz bang thingies as well?

    Exactly how did you go about "figuring the pushrod length. Little plastic thingie, or strictly "center of the valve?

    By any chance, did "Scotty" throw in a dual idler gear drive in with the "deal", or is it a chain.

    Quote Originally Posted by 22HotKt View Post
    Pro ones are 325 - inconel ex valve upgrade. Valve covers are tall aluminum marine from CP performance
    Quote Originally Posted by steelcomp View Post
    I'll ask again...which Pro one's?
    Geez old man, been wearing your saftey sheild, or do you have an aluminum sliver in your eye?



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    Last edited by gn7; 06-06-2011 at 05:36 PM.

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    Default Springs

    The Pro 1 's are 325's
    No plastic thinge
    Comp Cams adjustable pushrod to determine length

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    The noise I think you are describing is normal at idle. Spring rate is fine. Almost positive the push rods are too short. Pro 1's will almost NEVER end up with the roller tip in the center of the valve with proper geometry. I don't think that is causing your noise, just something I think you should address.
    In the interest of keeping this from becoming the worlds longest thread.... do a search of proper valve train geometry here. You will find lots of fun reading.
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    steelcomp was here
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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    Did you use one of these high dollar whiz bang thingies as well?

    Exactly how did you go about "figuring the pushrod length. Little plastic thingie, or strictly "center of the valve?

    By any chance, did "Scotty" throw in a dual idler gear drive in with the "deal", or is it a chain.





    Geez old man, been wearing your saftey sheild, or do you have an aluminum sliver in your eye?
    LOL...I guess when I read "the roller in the center of the" valve I just stopped reading.
    Last edited by scott foxwell; 06-06-2011 at 06:18 PM.
    If God is your co-pilot, change seats!
    Acts 2:38, the perfect answer to the perfect question.

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