Any Turbo Guru's? Help W/ Winter project please.
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Any Turbo Guru's? Help W/ Winter project please.

  1. #1
    Or Seth, either one Budweiser's Avatar
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    Default Any Turbo Guru's? Help W/ Winter project please.

    I'm building a 0.060 over 427 BBC for the Flattie. I was originally going to build it for a future head upgrade (AFR 315's @ +/- $3200.00), then I realized I could probably go with a turbo for about the same if not less $$$ and get way more power gain.

    I haven't done all the research yet, but here's a rough idea of what I'm thinking:

    Bore: 4.310
    Stroke: 3.760
    Rod's: 6.385" Eagle I-beam
    Pistons: Keith Black Forged Flat Top -3cc valve reliefe
    Heads: "049" stock chevy (I think these have 113cc combustion chambers)
    Intake: Edelbrock RPM AirGap
    Carb: Holley 750 DP modified for blowthrough
    Exhaust: DIY Weld El's Log style
    Cam: Comp Cams 11-568-4
    Turbo: Garrett GT 4708

    The math tells me the CR would be 7.9593:1 I'm thinking I should be able to run 10-20psi and get 800-1000 HP+TQ??? between 6000 and 6500 RPM. Which in all honesty, is probably too much

    I could use some input before I start ordering parts. Am I on the right track?
    Last edited by Budweiser; 12-31-2007 at 03:09 PM. Reason: Because I said so!

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    Highaboosta Unchained's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Budweiser View Post
    I realized I could probably go with a turbo for about the same if not less $$$ and get way more power gain.
    I could use some input before I start ordering parts. Am I on the right track?
    I've made a few sets of stainless dry turbo headers.
    I used 2" 409 stainless tubing J bends right out of the Jegs catalog for a couple of sets and they worked well. Several seasons use on them now.




    A Garrett GT47 is going to be real expensive. Like $ 1800.00
    It would be a LOT less to go with two Master Power turbos. Their about 1/3 the price of Garretts. They're made in Brasil and have been getting real popular.
    http://www.miketurboinc.com/master_power_htm.htm
    I was going to go with two GT45's for my 540 ci.

    If you don't mind picking through truck junkyards a couple GT42 Garretts off a Volvo semi would be great too.

    Here's a thread on www.theturboforums.com about master power turbos.
    http://www.theturboforums.com/smf/in...?topic=74174.0

    Have you read up on the subject before starting out ?
    Highly recommended.

    I do have a used set of stainless headers and turbos for sale.
    Good luck with that project.
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    Twin Turbo 1800 HP V-Drive lake boat

    http://s621.photobucket.com/albums/t...t=MAH05771.mp4

    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger View Post
    No one cares about your buddies old antiquated garden hose technology.
    Quote Originally Posted by MAXIMUS View Post
    I think I could run more boost but it's a real hand full right now

  4. #3
    Or Seth, either one Budweiser's Avatar
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    Awesome Unchained! I've read a lot of your posts over the last few months. I'm really glad most of the HB guys all ended up at the same place.

    Yes, I've been reading everything I can get my hands on. I'll put some of the links at the bottom of this post for anyone who wants to get up to speed. I think I'm finally getting the hang of reading compressor maps, but still don't feel I know enough to be offering advice to anyone else.

    A few questions about your set-up. What compression ratio and boost psi do you run? Pump gas? It's hard to tell from the angle of the picture, but it looks like you have a top mounted intercooler over EFI, or is that a carb enclosure?

    I'm all about getting more bang for the buck. I had pictured in my mind a single turbo, but I'm open to the possibility of twins. Do you have a link to the compressor map for the turbo's you have (are offering for sale)?

    Am I being way to optimistic, thinking I may be able to run 20psi intercooled (Water/Air) with pump gas on a blow through 8:1 engine? If so, what do you think is a realistic number?

    I met LandSpeedRacer yesterday, holey crap!

    Very nice guy!

    Garrett Turbo Tech 101 (Basic)
    Garrett Turbo Tech 102 (Advanced)
    Garrett Turbo Tech 103 (Expert)
    Blow Through Carburetor Modification
    DIY Turbo Biuld Up 1
    DIY Turbo Build Up 2
    Banks Twin Turbo Package (SBC)

    Oh, and one more thing. I got a PM from someone with a concerne that a 750cfm carb may not be large enough to support the horsepower I'm expecting. As I understand it, when doing a blowthrough set-up, a 750 will flow double that at around 15psi. Is this correct, or do I need to look at a different carb. ProCharger has an 1800hp car running 2 450cfm Holley's, so I assume I'm on the right track.

    Thank you for all your input you guys!

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    Default Budweiser and Unchained

    Happy New Years to you guys

    Budweiser, nice to meet you and talk for a bit, sorry we didn't talk more as I was packing up trying to get home. Great weekend and NYE and NYD at CFW.

    As far as building a turbo set-up, this is my first. I started buying used crap and then my son suggested I buy a few books on the subject. So I started reading and reading. Much of it is mapping and curves, etc. and you can get a bit lost, but what I really paid attention to was the do's and dont's which saved me a lot of time and money. I also pay close attention to the tuner guys and magazines like "Turbo". Of course what we are doing and they are doing are a bit different, but I learned a lot. Besides, if I didn't learn much from the latest issue, they always have hot chicks in there

    Many turbo set-ups are different, my boat is actually my dyno for the Bonneville Salt Flats. There is a bunch of parts I really don't need on my flat but I wanted to try out for my LSR deal. The thing is, I'm so happy with how the boat turned out now I'll probably just leave it together and continue to have fun and meet really cool people.

    Guess I'd better start playing the lottery to afford Bonneville . . . . .

    LSR

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    Highaboosta Unchained's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Budweiser View Post
    Yes, I've been reading everything I can get my hands on. I'll put some of the links at the bottom of this post for anyone who wants to get up to speed. I think I'm finally getting the hang of reading compressor maps, but still don't feel I know enough to be offering advice to anyone else.

    A few questions about your set-up. What compression ratio and boost psi do you run? Pump gas? It's hard to tell from the angle of the picture, but it looks like you have a top mounted intercooler over EFI, or is that a carb enclosure?

    I'm all about getting more bang for the buck. I had pictured in my mind a single turbo, but I'm open to the possibility of twins. Do you have a link to the compressor map for the turbo's you have (are offering for sale)?

    Am I being way to optimistic, thinking I may be able to run 20psi intercooled (Water/Air) with pump gas on a blow through 8:1 engine? If so, what do you think is a realistic number?

    Oh, and one more thing. I got a PM from someone with a concerne that a 750cfm carb may not be large enough to support the horsepower I'm expecting. As I understand it, when doing a blowthrough set-up, a 750 will flow double that at around 15psi. Is this correct, or do I need to look at a different carb. ProCharger has an 1800hp car running 2 450cfm Holley's, so I assume I'm on the right track.
    Thank you for all your input you guys!
    You'll find that with turbos as with most buildups you will get 20 different opinions on how it should be done. That's why the books can give you the best professional information.

    You could run a lot of boost on pump gas if you had a water inj. unit on line too. I don't know a lot about the blow through carbs but Procharger has made them work and put out big HP numbers with a single carb. They always use a real large intercooler too.

    I've been running EFI and that is an intercooler box on top of the intake manifold with throttle bodies on each side.
    Here's a summary of my initial turbo installation from 5 years ago from the www.michiganhotboats.com site.
    http://www.michiganhotboats.com/technical/turbo1.html
    I've changed a few things since documenting that buildup.
    I think it's pretty optimistic to think you're going to get everything perfect the first time through.

    There's a pretty large range of turbo sizes that will work on a BBC. From large to small they are going to have different boost ranges. You need to be clear on what your ultimate goal is. 20 # of turbo boost on a BBC is going to create a monster in the 1400 hp range. Too much for a lake flatbottom IMO.

    I ran 20# boost in the jet boat for several years but the same motor in the Daytona V-drive only needed 11# boost to give plenty scary performance. The static compression is at 8:1

    I prefer two turbos mainly to minimize the piping from the head to the turbo.
    A long crossover pipe is going to radiate heat like you won't believe and probably won't be able to support the 50# + weight of a large frame turbo without a support down to the block.

    I don't have the compressor map on the turbo I've been using but their Garrett TV7701 with 1.15 turbine housing and .55 compressor housing. T6 turbine housing flange.
    I have the part no. and serial no tag. You may be able to look up the compressor map on the Garrett website.
    They put out more than enough boost. The minimum boost I've been able to run with a single 1 3/4" wastegate on each side is at 11# and it hits real hard IMO.
    Funny thing is, when I ran a roots blower I couldn't get enough boost, with the turbos it puts out (almost) too much.

    Good luck
    Mark
    616 813 7237
    Last edited by Unchained; 01-04-2008 at 09:01 AM.

    Twin Turbo 1800 HP V-Drive lake boat

    http://s621.photobucket.com/albums/t...t=MAH05771.mp4

    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger View Post
    No one cares about your buddies old antiquated garden hose technology.
    Quote Originally Posted by MAXIMUS View Post
    I think I could run more boost but it's a real hand full right now

  8. #6
    Or Seth, either one Budweiser's Avatar
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    Default You guys are awesome!

    Now that's exactly what I'm looking for. Something that is able to produce more than I can use, that can also be tuned and run at a moderate (not sure if that's an appropriate word ) level too.

    I completely agree, I think for my application, even 700hp is pushing it. Psychologically speaking, it'd be nice to know it's potentially available...I don't think I'd be wishing I had more power.

    What books do you guys recommend?

    BTW Unchained, What brand pistons do you use?
    Last edited by Budweiser; 01-04-2008 at 12:20 AM. Reason: I am all powerfull OZ

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    Highaboosta Unchained's Avatar
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    "Maximum boost" is a good book and shows some ideal configurations on the exhaust piping and wastegate locations.

    I run J & E pistons now. I had BME pistons for 7 seasons and I think they are the best but a lot more expensive.

    If your only looking for 700 hp +- keep the cam near stock and don't waste money on any porting or oversize heads or valves. I like the motor to idle smooth and quiet so it looks as much like a sleeper as possible....until you apply the hammer.

    Twin Turbo 1800 HP V-Drive lake boat

    http://s621.photobucket.com/albums/t...t=MAH05771.mp4

    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger View Post
    No one cares about your buddies old antiquated garden hose technology.
    Quote Originally Posted by MAXIMUS View Post
    I think I could run more boost but it's a real hand full right now

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    Senior Member steveo143's Avatar
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    Budweiser, I'm glad you started this thread over here. Sorry I didn't get to meet you, I was part of the Andy Herbert and Scott "LSR" group. Do you already have the 049 heads? 900's might work a little better. I have a complete Race Arrow twin turbo draw thru setup with wastegates and 990 heads, O ringed inconel exhaust that would bolt on.
    steveo143 AKA DiMarco 21 II



    Now totally Green on E-85, saving the world one ear of corn at a time!
    RIP Davey B and Denis and Chris and Bob GN7

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    Or Seth, either one Budweiser's Avatar
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    Well, nice to meet you. BigJoeDuckSlayer and I just stopped by for a moment to see the beast at CFW, didn't hang around too long. Hopefully I'll get this thing together by May or June and we can meet out on the water.

    Yeah, I already have the 049 heads. Tell me a little more about your set up though. I'm under the impression that draw through is kind of the old school way of doing it. What are the advantages/disadvantages and what results have you had with the system?

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    Default reading material

    Been sick the last few days. Went to the bookstore and P/u "TurboCharging Performance Handbook" by Jeff Hartman. Published by Motorbooks Workshop.

    Almost done with it. Learned a few things.

    Jerry

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    Or Seth, either one Budweiser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billet racing View Post
    Been sick the last few days. Went to the bookstore and P/u "TurboCharging Performance Handbook" by Jeff Hartman. Published by Motorbooks Workshop.

    Almost done with it. Learned a few things.

    Jerry
    Feel free to share anything you find interesting. I went to Borders today and looked over a few turbo books. Wasn't sure which one to buy, so I'll probably see if I can just get them at a library.

  14. #12
    Senior Member Here Comes Whitey's Avatar
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    My buddy is selling two fresh 60-1s with exhaust manifolds,wastegates and two carbs and all the linkage. System came off a rayson craft and made around 1100-1200 hp. Also has fuel pumps,filters and regulators and some misc stuff. I believe he wants around 2250$ which is a good deal.
    Will try and find some pics.

  15. #13
    Senior Member Here Comes Whitey's Avatar
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    Heres of few of mine





    Last edited by Here Comes Whitey; 01-10-2008 at 03:58 PM.

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    Senior Member Here Comes Whitey's Avatar
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    Almost the same as the one above.Efi is great.


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