Force Rip off scam
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Force Rip off scam

  1. #1

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    Default Force Rip off scam

    All parties have been contacted prior to this post in an effort to reach restitution with no response from Brad Ayres and Mike Morales wants no part of it. I sent Brad a large deposit for a 29 canopy cat (white w/blue flames) Nov.06. with an agreemant to pay in full when it came out of the mold and delivery date as of May 07. Boat was PAID IN FULL Jan.07 as my credit union wire transferred Union Bank of Ca. the unpaid balance. Boat was not completed as of promised date May 07, June, July, August. In August we then made a new deal for the 32 canopy cat again with a delivery date of May 08. Brad then sent me a receipt that the 29 was a damaged hull and replaced with the 32. He then asked me if I would be interested in driving it in the Desert Storm Poker Run and I said that would be a once in a lifetime opportunity for a guy from out of state to take delivery of his new boat there for that event. That did not happen! Brad then stated he had all the parts and it would be done for sure in May as promised. 2 more weeks! May... no boat and Brad states that his motor builder closed up shop and stole my motors. I thought he said he had all the parts? Next my 29 is then retitled and renumbered and put on E-bay with Mike Morales as key contact phone number. 29 does not sell and now Mike owns it because he states Brad owed him money as well. I currently hold titles for BOTH of these boats and my credit union is lean holder. As of now I have a completely unfinshed 32 canopy cat sitting in Ca. on a cat dolley because I cannot afford to finish what I already paid for in full. Rusty from Adrenaline gave me a $118.-K estimate to finish the boat per my written contract due to it has no motors, no drives and no trailer. With not recieveing any where near the dollar value I paid as far as I am concerned I still own BOTH boats. Thanks to Brad the only water I have seen for the past 2 seasons has come out of my shower head and continue to make huge payments and interest for the last 22 months or so on a dead horse.(I mean Force) My deal is not even cold yet and after Brad put Mike in charge again trying to sell this 32 on Boat Trader to pay me back with nothing happening or lack of effort trying to do so. All I want is what I paid for or refund. Next...here comes Mike Morales as new owner of Force Powerboats Inc. to carry on the legacy. Probably no affiliation though! Yeah right!
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    Last edited by 32 Force Sale; 11-26-2008 at 04:22 AM.

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  3. #2
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    Man that sucks the boat biz is shady.

  4. #3
    Senior Member ratso's Avatar
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    Custom boats should be done like my homes I've built... 6 draws per amount of work done... the last when it's finished. No way would I pay for anything completely before it's even built. Too often the "stand up" person in the deal, which is the one with the money, ends up getting screwed... I'm sure there is more to the story, but given the state of things, the economy, etc, seems you been royally fukked...

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  6. #4
    Senior Member ratso's Avatar
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    ...love to hear the other side of it...

  7. #5
    Don't Taze Me, Bro! BoatCop's Avatar
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    When did Bahner take over Force?

    Alan
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  8. #6
    Boat Nut drejustice's Avatar
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    I'm sorry you got screwed.

    My 1st question is, why would you pay in full for a boat before you take delivery?

    Out of the boats i've owned, only 1 was custom from scratch but the deal was structured payments over the course of the build with each installment due once a certain milestone was complete. I didn't have to pay the final installment which was a decent percentage until, I flew out and saw the final product and took a test ride.

    2nd, if you have the titles and emails, letters, etc of all that transpired plus the contracts, i'd let an attorney go after these two. Go get your 32 hull and try and sell it to recoup some costs.

    I'm glad that you posted this info as hopefully it'll be helpfull info people will use to make a smart choice in which company they choose to purchase a boat from in the future. I know i was all over the various boards and internet doing research on builders before I bought.

    www.smlpba.com "Education not Legislation"

  9. #7
    Senior Member dribble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ratso View Post
    ...love to hear the other side of it...
    The first sentence of his post pretty much sums it up with me. It would appear that this guy got screwed by both the old owner of Force and the new owner of Force Powerboats Inc. working in concert. I hope it was worth it.

  10. #8
    mo balls than $cents$ IMPATIENT 1's Avatar
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    why hasn't there been a lawsuit filed yet? at the very least you should've have spoke with a fraud officer at your nearest police dept.. theft is theft, wether its done by a business frt or a person call your credit union and see if they have any protection for you in this.

    somebody phuck me outta that much money, and some of their shit will burn to the ground

    Dare to be different, if it turns out great you can claim you planned it that way.

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  11. #9
    Other Side of River RVR SWPR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2FORCEFULL View Post
    I did the same thing, paid complete up front, didn't want to owe anyone anything

    I knew times were getting tough, want'd to make sure I had no bills,

    I feel very lucky to have got my boat. 2 weeks is a long time to
    wait...........................

    We all followed the progress of your boat and the jokes about finished in 2 weeks.Somehow you got it
    done and done well.This guy should talk to you private on how you got it done.

  12. #10
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    After the 29 deal went sideways and was unrealistically delayed and the economy was starting to go into the crapper in mid 2007 why would you say ok to an upgrade deal on a 32 that you would not see for another 9 months?......that just seems like a case of ....fool me once shame on you...fool me twice shame on me..

  13. #11
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    Sumptin ain't right....no way I'd pay "in full" without it in my driveway...
    Popcorn is Life ...

  14. #12
    Boat Nut drejustice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2FORCEFULL View Post
    I did the same thing, paid complete up front, didn't want to owe anyone anything

    I knew times were getting tough, want'd to make sure I had no bills,

    I don't see where paying completely upfront has anything to do with no bills in this case.

    If you took the total cash you paid upfront and paid it upon phases being finished on the boat, at the end you ensure you have a finished boat for the $$ you paid. I did it this way and took the boat with no payments or bills left upon delivery and with significantly less risk than paying upfront.

    I'd say the lesson for potential boat buyers is if your required by a boat builder to put up a large upfront amount or pay in full before delivery, it might be a big red flag. Run don't walk away from that deal!

    www.smlpba.com "Education not Legislation"

  15. #13
    Floatin dirty Lavey29's Avatar
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    Obvioulsy, there was fraud and deception taking place during this business deal as evidenced by the previous/current owners of Force changing their stories and providing false info to the customer about his boat and the progress of the build. I would initiate a criminal complaint for theft against them. If you are successful, the court can also order restitution paid to you. An alternative is a civil suit and again if you are successful, a lien can be placed or you can be awarded assets such as the molds to offset your losses which you could turn around and sell also. I believe that there is no doubt the previous owner and current owner (slightly different business name now) are still working together in some capacity.
    Last edited by Lavey29; 11-26-2008 at 07:57 AM.

  16. #14
    mach26 300's dschifan's Avatar
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    yep two sides to one story, not saying that brad did not fuk you which looks to be he did which definitely sucks, but mike was not the owner so blamming him is just stupid, especially me knowing that he paid for his own personal boat from force.

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