Main Clearance.
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Main Clearance.

  1. #1
    I'm No Expert Shaun's Avatar
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    Default Main Clearance.

    Got the block back from Pfaff and come to find out they didnt line hone the block like i asked.. so today i mic'd the journals and installed the bearings to get a idea were i'm at. The bearings are MS-829H-1.

    Journals measured
    #1 2.7480
    #2 2.7482
    #3 2.7481
    #4 2.7481
    #5 2.7483

    Torqued down the caps to 110 lbs and this is what i got. F means the bearing half facing the front and R facing the back (using the groove as a divider)

    #1 F .0026 R .0024
    #2 F .0025 R .0026
    #3 F .0020 R .0026
    #4 F .0016 R .0016
    #5 F .0030 R .0025

    I checked the bearings they all have the same .001 number on them, caps are in the correct numbered places and facing arrow forward.

    I'm curious why the numbers are so sparatic, is this because i need to have this thing line honed? This block with my last 468 build the mains were on the tighter side too... Ended up running kings race bearings to try to get extra clearance (old crank was mains were .010)

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  3. #2
    Bostick Racing Engines six-oh-nine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaun View Post
    Got the block back from Pfaff and come to find out they didnt line hone the block like i asked.. so today i mic'd the journals and installed the bearings to get a idea were i'm at. The bearings are MS-829H-1.

    Journals measured
    #1 2.7480
    #2 2.7482
    #3 2.7481
    #4 2.7481
    #5 2.7483

    Torqued down the caps to 110 lbs and this is what i got. F means the bearing half facing the front and R facing the back (using the groove as a divider)

    #1 F .0026 R .0024
    #2 F .0025 R .0026
    #3 F .0020 R .0026
    #4 F .0016 R .0016
    #5 F .0030 R .0025

    I checked the bearings they all have the same .001 number on them, caps are in the correct numbered places and facing arrow forward.

    I'm curious why the numbers are so sparatic, is this because i need to have this thing line honed? This block with my last 468 build the mains were on the tighter side too... Ended up running kings race bearings to try to get extra clearance (old crank was mains were .010)

    Damn... that #4 is a bit on the tight side... still within "specs"... but specs allow for .0005 to still be "cool" for what that's worth. My two cents... line hone the puppy. You could play the "mix 'n match" bearing routine... but never been a fan when you can just machine the part correctly and get it spot on wihtout buying 2-3 sets of bearings. Just curious though... before going through the trouble... did you check the housing bore dia and roundness? You'd be surprised at what the factory allows out the door.
    Last edited by six-oh-nine; 03-26-2009 at 11:42 PM.
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  4. #3
    I'm No Expert Shaun's Avatar
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    No i didnt check the housing bore and i dont doubt that some previous work was not correct. Before i got this block it had been rebuilt by some budget shop, and was .040 over with .010 under mains and stock rods. I had a hell of a time the first go around with the mains and getting my clearances right. I always figured it was the crank.

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  6. #4
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    Shaun,
    Four needs to be fixed. You need to have the block line honed. You would have to buy 2 more sets of mains, std, and X's to get the clearances you need, if if was 1 set then okay but with 4 the way it is you would be better off to get the block line hone.

    Also 3 and 5 have some taper in them so thats telling me the cap is just a tad cocked on the registers. For what your building I would get that fixed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cstraub View Post
    Shaun,
    Four needs to be fixed. You need to have the block line honed. You would have to buy 2 more sets of mains, std, and X's to get the clearances you need, if if was 1 set then okay but with 4 the way it is you would be better off to get the block line hone.

    Also 3 and 5 have some taper in them so thats telling me the cap is just a tad cocked on the registers. For what your building I would get that fixed.
    X2!

    Also, if you do end up having to run mixed matched bearings (using std. with a .001 under ect.) try to keep the bearings in the caps all the same. I would start by putting std/std in, then adjust the upper bearing as needed.

    PM answered

  8. #6
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    "This block with my last 468 build the mains were on the tighter side too"

    Meaning #4 was not like that before.

    Somethings up. Wrong cap wrong place...something. Follow instructions in pm.
    Last edited by Fiat48; 03-27-2009 at 08:11 AM.

  9. #7
    steelcomp was here
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    I'll be odd man out here and say I find it hard to believe the #4 main is .001 off from the others, but not unheard of I guess. My guess is Pfaff didn't hone it because it wasn't needed. First thing I would do is measure bearing shells. Part numbers could be wrong. On no. 3, look for a burr or piece of dirt or something that may be keeping that cap from going on straight. If you need to, gently use a fine cut file on the edges of the cap and block to make sure things are clean and straight. Assemble the mains without the bearings and check the bores before you haul it to the machine shop. Try and confirm the clearances you're getting. Make sure your torque procedures are correct and uniform. Like Warp said, keep the same bearings in the caps and use the block side to adjust if you have too.
    JMO.
    ETA: X2 with Fiat on possibly having caps crossed up.
    Last edited by scott foxwell; 03-27-2009 at 08:17 AM.
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    Not to be a smart ass but are the caps in the correct location

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    Quote Originally Posted by PT PERF View Post
    Not to be a smart ass but are the caps in the correct location
    I'm guessing by the rest of the reading the caps are in the correct location. Otherwise they all would be jacked up...not just #4.
    I have seen #4 close up pretty good due to detonation. #6 cylinder can pound the hell out of it by it's nature, and #7 typically being lean doesn't help this area either. Couple this with clamp load on the low side and it could shrink up quite a bit. Not saying this is the case, but definitely believable.
    The one variable is why Pfaff didn't catch it?
    That would point to a miss-marked bearing, but they are -.001's, so unless #4 is the only correct one and the rest are std????

    Hmmmm.

    As Steel pointed out it could be as simple as a spec of dirt behind the bearing, or.......?

  12. #10
    I'm No Expert Shaun's Avatar
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    I went out, removed the bearings, cleaned everything again and torqued the caps on with no bearings. My proceedure is start at 20lbs torque the insides, then outsides, then increment by 10lbs... all the way to 110.

    Draging my nail on #1 and #3 accross (front to back) the cap i can feel a bur at the edge.

    Pfaff i havnt been all that impressed with. I asked them to line hone the block. They didnt, and when i asked if it was checked they couldnt give me a answer, where suppose to call me back with the answer and never did. They did line hone my buddys block that which he didnt ask for. Now one could say that pfaff checked his block and it needed it but what i find weird is that on my buddys block they didnt check or surface the deck.. My guess is they got us confused. Then my buddy has a crank shipped to them from summit, they balance it and when i pick it up they show me a 1/4" hole in the side of the counter weight because scat drilled the counter weights off center. Pfaff seams to think it will be fine, scat seams to think it wont be and wouldnt run it. Scat also said a red flag should have poped up when pfaff saw this... so now i'm trying to find out if pfaff is going to rebalance the new crank from scat but again, havnt gotten a call back or an answer only been a day though...

    At this point i'm not sure if it's just me or what but i'm thinking i should take back and get it line honed to just have peice of mind and maybe have them check it while it's up there so i can compare there measurements with my own...

    I set my mic to 2.9375, put the dial bore guage in it and zero'd it. Here's what i got

    #1 F -.0006 R -.0007
    #2 F -.0011 R -.0010
    #3 F -.0005 R -.0005
    #4 F -.0005 R -.0005
    #5 Didnt check.
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  13. #11
    steelcomp was here
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    Right off the bat I see #3 and #4 are identical, and the crank is as well, so the final on those two should have been identical.
    Do you have compressed air?
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  14. #12
    I'm No Expert Shaun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelcomp View Post
    Right off the bat I see #3 and #4 are identical, and the crank is as well, so the final on those two should have been identical.
    Do you have compressed air?
    yes, and already blew out the main bolt holes if thats what your going to ask me to do next

  15. #13
    gn7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaun View Post

    Pfaff i havnt been all that impressed with. I asked them to line hone the block. They didnt, and when i asked if it was checked they couldnt give me Then my buddy has a crank shipped to them from summit, they balance it and when i pick it up they show me a 1/4" hole in the side of the counter weight because scat drilled the counter weights off center. Pfaff seams to think it will be fine, scat seams to think it wont be and wouldnt run it. Scat also said a red flag should have poped up when pfaff saw this... so now i'm trying to find out if pfaff is going to rebalance the new crank from scat but again, havnt gotten a call back or an answer only been a day though...



    I set my mic to 2.9375, put the dial bore guage in it and zero'd it. Here's what i got

    #1 F -.0006 R -.0007
    #2 F -.0011 R -.0010
    #3 F -.0005 R -.0005
    #4 F -.0005 R -.0005
    #5 Didnt check.
    Some thing is up here Shaun. How come the #2 is big, yet when you had the bearings in, it measured the same as #1. I would get some really good measurements on the bearing thicknesses and maybe you can juggle them around to come up with some thing better than you had the first time. Is this ridge on the bearing saddle or on the register flat? Iam totally confused by the crank counter weight thing. Explain it again, doesn't make any sense!



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    Last edited by gn7; 03-27-2009 at 01:46 PM.

  16. #14
    I'm No Expert Shaun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    Some thing is up here Shaun. How come the #2 is big, yet when you had the bearings in, it measured the same as #1. I would get some really good measurements on the bearing thicknesses and maybe you can juggle them around to come up with some thing better than you had the first time. Is this ridge on the bearing saddle or on the register flat
    bob, i dont know, at this point i'm starting to doubt this dial bore guage. It's made by tavia from the looks of it but it's the summit brand. I just went out and took some numbers again and now #3 i'm able to get to -.0001 and #4 the same... going from a mic of 2.9375

    The burs/ridge i feel is on the bearing saddle.

    I'm a bit frustrated right now....

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