Any interest in a brand new 2010 elim daytona or cheyenne
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Any interest in a brand new 2010 elim daytona or cheyenne

  1. #1
    Senior Member Mouzer's Avatar
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    Default Any interest in a brand new 2010 elim daytona or cheyenne

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    Last edited by Mouzer; 02-02-2010 at 07:54 AM.


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  3. #2
    Spiral out MikeF's Avatar
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    How many of these hulls has your buddy laid up?

    Not sure there are 300# daytona's out there?!
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    Senior Member Robert Jonsson's Avatar
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    My bad... I miss read mouzers post, I thought he was looking for a 19 tunnel.
    Last edited by Robert Jonsson; 01-23-2010 at 02:57 AM.
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    Senior Member Boat 405's Avatar
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    300# daytona? not in fiberglass...... The lightest glass daytona I think ever made was around 340#. The boat I have is 395. The gambler was around 360# I believe(not sure but I remember that number from a conversation with Joe P.)

    The lightest TPR made is owned by Mike Miller at 278#, it is vacuum bagged carbon fiber. The materials alone are over 20k.

    The mold for the daytona that shoemaker and mike d. own is the mold that you want to use.

    just my .02.
    Boat 405.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Jonsson View Post
    If you're talkin about that Cheyenne mold out in the IE area, I had heard from a few people that looked at it when it was for sale, and they said the mold had issues and was basically coming apart. That's what I was told.

    If someones making Daytona copies, I hope they cleared that with Bob Leach, cause I heard he don't like that too much.

    If you're looking to get one of these, why don't you get ahold of Greg Shoemaker or Mike D. They have So Cal custom boats and are making the TPR 19 and Daytonas. Several people on here have bought ones and have been satisfied. If you P.M. Widowmaker he can tell you about his.
    There are 300# Daytona's I have 2 of them & 1 at 485# funny thing is the 330# & 365 hulls of mine say patten pending stamped in the mold right above the HIN number, Yes they are composite hulls yes new had a price tag of 30K. But that patten pending is only a temp safe for 5 or 7 years.

    My 3rd Daytona does not have it & was one hell of a race boat in it's day, Thanks to Tom. Tom put the bottom on it, set the intake, did all the pump work & rigging.

    I don't know, but to get a great " LAKE " boat lay-up right out of the mold with a bottom that has run 140+ in 1/4 back then should do it today as well & heck at $6,500.00 starting price I'm sure a few will not be happy sense that just about half price IMO times are tuff and with a build cost on a 19 tunnel is right at $5,500.00 all I see is some one making 1k insted of Keystone?
    Just my $0.02
    Last edited by PGF457; 01-22-2010 at 08:17 PM.
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    Senior Member Boat 405's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PGF457 View Post
    There are 300# Daytona's I have 2 of them
    Have you weighed them yourself? When were they built?

    Not trying to start a pissing match. Just that the problem with a 300# daytona is the fact that it takes much more material than a v bottom to layup a daytona. Even today with the layup schedules that are available to us now are much better than what was available years ago. So a 20 year old daytona that is sub 400# has a lot more flex than a 400# boat today.

    A 340 - 360 # daytona is about as light as you want to build one that will survive in glass. And when I say survive I mean very limited use.

    I'd be very interested in hearing or seeing more info about these two that you say are 300#.

    My boat before bulkheads and flow coat was 380#, when I looked at the boat for the first time right out of the mold before the seams were glassed, bulkheads installed and flow coating, I thought to myself (oh sh*t) this thing is gonna break, once it was all assembled with seams glassed, bulkheads and flowcoat I was still a little concerned. So far the boat has seen the river once, and the rest has been at the track, I have zero stress cracks.
    Boat 405.
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    Senior Member Boat 405's Avatar
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    There are 300# Daytona's I have 2 of them & 1 at 485# funny thing is the 2) 300# hulls of mine say patten pending stamped in the mold right above the HIN number, but that is only a temp safe for 5 or 7 years.

    My 3rd Daytona does not have it & was one hell of a race boat in it's day, Thanks to Tom. Tom put the bottom on it, set the intake, did all the pump work & rigging.

    I don't know, but to get a boat right out of the mold with a bottom that has run 140+ in 1/4 back then should do it today as well & heck at $6,500.00 starting price I'm sure a few will not be happy sense that just about half price IMO times are tuff and with a build cost on a 19 tunnel is right at $5,500.00 all I see is some one making 1k insted of Keystone?
    edit: I thought you meant 300# flat in glass, from your post,

    330 and 365 is very possible in composite. I'm very interested in knowing more info about these boats. PM me about them. Thanks
    Boat 405.
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    Senior Member WMorton's Avatar
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    There are already two people making 19 Daytona's, Bob and Greg. No offense Mouser, but I don't think we need a third. It's supply and demand. With the economy the way it is, a third is really just going to take away from Greg and none of us want to see that happen. He's building the best quality race daytona and deserves to keep his clientel for all his hard work in ensuring that his mold is true.

    I will say because I went down a road when looking for someone to layup boats for me, be careful on the numbers people quote for laying up hulls, in the end they are going to have a hard time producing hulls for that price....unless you take it to Mexico. I personally don't want to get into a sub 400lb. Daytona hull that pablo threw together for $20 a week.

    Good luck though, and keep finding those smoking deals. You keep our wives happy because we don't have a chance to come home with a boat we don't need.
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    Senior Member Mike D's Avatar
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    Lets see the pics of the daytona mold your talking about. I`m curious because i was under the impression there where only 2 true original daytona molds. Is this the 19 cougar mold ?
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    Sounds interesting, Mike,for sure !!
    I have, undergoing professional restoration, an original Daytona that was fully race prepped on the pump installation, bottom, and blueprinted by Tom Papp himself. It is a special and fitting memory of Tom and TPR.
    One of the maybe 4 or 5 he did, and maybe the last of those....now it is no longer an original Daytona but a TPR custom using a original Daytona hull as a basis....if a splash of this hull or a mold was modified with these changes, it is not a Daytona but a new evolved design. (No, nobody is cutting up this boat !!) (Isn't that what Tom and a lot of others have done in the past, and are still doing ??)(Stealth, Cheyenne, etc, etc. etc.) Other than name, none of this stuff is patented, that I know of......
    The original Daytona mold was destroyed in an accident, according to my information, so all are copies.....so no one can claim they have the original mold !!

    I know there are lots of opinions, but isn't this called progress, advancement, the very history of racing, to take what has been done before and modify and improve upon it ?
    I would suggest this is a niche and small market right now in these economic times.
    The risk is all on the manufacturer, so why not ??


    I, for one, would welcome great hulls of advanced design being made at a fair and competitive price, The market will ultimately determine if a product or idea is sound !! Let competition and free enterprise work !!
    IMHO, Gordon.
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    Senior Member Mike D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rotorrider View Post
    Sounds interesting, Mike,for sure !!
    I have, undergoing professional restoration, an original Daytona that was fully race prepped on the pump installation, bottom, and blueprinted by Tom Papp himself. It is a special and fitting memory of Tom and TPR.
    One of the maybe 4 or 5 he did, and maybe the last of those....now it is no longer an original Daytona but a TPR custom using a original Daytona hull as a basis....if a splash of this hull or a mold was modified with these changes, it is not a Daytona but a new evolved design. (No, nobody is cutting up this boat !!) (Isn't that what Tom and a lot of others have done in the past, and are still doing ??)(Stealth, Cheyenne, etc, etc. etc.) Other than name, none of this stuff is patented, that I know of......
    The original Daytona mold was destroyed in an accident, according to my information, so all are copies.....so no one can claim they have the original mold !!

    I know there are lots of opinions, but isn't this called progress, advancement, the very history of racing, to take what has been done before and modify and improve upon it ?
    I would suggest this is a niche and small market right now in these economic times.
    The risk is all on the manufacturer, so why not ??


    I, for one, would welcome great hulls of advanced design being made at a fair and competitive price, The market will ultimately determine if a product or idea is sound !! Let competition and free enterprise work !!
    IMHO, Gordon.
    Now I may be wrong but I have been told by a few of the old timers that we have the original flat keel mold,
    It now has a round keel that has been completely remodified and reshaped.
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    Default 19 Daytona

    The molds that myself and Mike DeClark own are the oringinal molds that I raced out of starting in 1975 for Eliminator Boats. The center keel has been modified but I can tell you that the mold we started with was the original 19 molds. These molds were the same molds that were used to build the only fully composite boat that I am aware of . Tommy Phillips was a partner with Bob Leach at the time and we built a vaccum bagged 19 that weighed under 300 lbs. The boat was run and proved to be a bad idea hard to contol and the laminate schedule proved to come apart after use. No memory to the carbon fiber so after a few runs the boat started to have lamination problems. The only other boat that was weighted and had a certified weight was built for Ron Pitts and I beleive it weighted 318 lbs with a conventional fiberglass layup .Even the Gambler that we built for John Spyskma and was later sold to Joe Podwaski weighed 360 before the bottom work. All of the so called kevlar boats that are out there today are far from a 100% kevlar' the final cloth layup was kevlar and that was a kevlar layup. Generally most all of the Daytona's that came out of Eliminator for a race version were between 380 to 450 depending on which lamination crew built it and what day of the week it was. Monday boats were heavy and Friday boats were light.
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    Default 19 Daytona

    If you are talking about the late Sonny Jones I beleive we built that boat for a customer out of Reno Nevada. I'm not quite sure how much bottom design was put into this boat without seeing some pictures. I'm not aware of any BFJ Daytona that ran that kind of speed other than Quarterflash which ran 150 one time to set the NJBA BFJ record. When this boat was sold it received a capasule and ran in the mid to high 40's. Are you sure that this boat was a BFJ or did run Blown gas jet. I worked with Sonny on a few jet boats but never a BFJ.
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    Default 19 Daytona

    The releif's are inserts that are put in the mold before lamination is started.We laminate over them and then remove them from the hull once the boat has been pulled from the mold. To do releif's in a tunnel once the boat has been built is a big job but it can be done to a degree without pulling the intake .It really depends on what kind of speeds you want to acheive. There have been a couple of boats we did in degrees but eventually we had to pull the intake, reglass the keel, cut the releif's, reset the intake and re blend the bottom to the intake. A whole lot of work but the results were worth it!
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