Standard or hv oil pump
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Standard or hv oil pump

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    Default Standard or hv oil pump

    Hey I know this isn't a "Jetboat" question, but I see alot of good tech talk on these forums in here, do you run a standard or hv oil pump in a jet boat motor...? A guy told me never to run a hv pump, i don't know why, is there a reason? Maybe not with a stock pan, but a 8-10qt pan should you still not...? I have a 468 mild bbc low comp motor in a show truck with a standard m-77 oil pump and it does fine I'd say, this motor for my jet is similar with a Lil more comp itll spin my "a" around 5k or 5.5k im thinking, but I'm curious if your suppose to run hv pumps or not, and when it's ok if so, or is a standard mellings oil pump ok still....?!
    "its a shame for a man to spend his whole life, not knowing what his body is truly capable of" :Socrates:

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    Senior Member HBInHeat's Avatar
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    Hv all the way.no.questions asked

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    Senior Member wpmxwb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HBInHeat View Post
    Hv all the way.no.questions asked
    I second that.

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    Senior Member Fonz69's Avatar
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    I had better luck with a standard flow mellings pump
    The hv seems to pump too much too fast at long wot runs and cause too much oil up in the heads even with the 10q pan
    As long as you see 10 PSI for every 1k rpm you are good to go

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    Senior Member DuaneHTP's Avatar
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    A high volume pump in an application were it's not a necessity is not a good thing. It pumps more oil than is needed, can put too much oil up on top, starve the bearings, draws hp and also causes extra heating of the oil. I've always had better performance out of a stock volume pump that has a little extra pressure. (in a jet boat).

    Duane HTP

    Read your PM.
    Last edited by DuaneHTP; 01-31-2013 at 05:33 PM.

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    Thanks for the info Duane.
    "its a shame for a man to spend his whole life, not knowing what his body is truly capable of" :Socrates:

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    Senior Member EVILFORCE's Avatar
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    Thank You Duane. I tell that to people and I get laughed at.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krazykracker View Post
    Hey I know this isn't a "Jetboat" question, but I see alot of good tech talk on these forums in here, do you run a standard or hv oil pump in a jet boat motor...? A guy told me never to run a hv pump, i don't know why, is there a reason? Maybe not with a stock pan, but a 8-10qt pan should you still not...? I have a 468 mild bbc low comp motor in a show truck with a standard m-77 oil pump and it does fine I'd say, this motor for my jet is similar with a Lil more comp itll spin my "a" around 5k or 5.5k im thinking, but I'm curious if your suppose to run hv pumps or not, and when it's ok if so, or is a standard mellings oil pump ok still....?!
    I am going to say that it will depend on how the engine is built, with bearing clearances having a lot to do with which pump you want to run. Larger bearing clearance will bleed off more oil and be happier with the high volume pump.

    Also, don't forget that oil not only lubricates, but cools parts. I am building a 427 for the street now that will be getting a standard volume pump (and slightly tighter bearing clearances), but any marine engine I build with clearances that I set gets a high volume pump. That includes jet boats, both recreational and racing, as well as turbo and blown big blocks, flat and roller cams, 14 and 10 qt pans.
    Last edited by obnoxious001; 02-01-2013 at 12:00 AM.

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    AS you can see everyone has an opinion and they all can be different. Depending on your engine build and how you use the boat, they all can be right. If you do not have extremely big brg clearances a HV pump robs Hp, raises oil temps, and increases distributer gear wear with no significant benefit. On the other hand, if your clearances are significantly opened up and you are going to spend significant periods at 5-5500 rpm, the benefit of increased volume will offset the negatives just listed. (Assuming you do not pump all of the oil into the valve covers) If you go the latter route you will need to consider large capacity oil pan and possibly an oil cooler. In my case I have mild 540 that makes about 600Hp, 12 qt pan, standard volume melling pump, no oil cooler. If I run above 4,500 Rpm for 7-8 miles I see about 5 psi drop in oil pressure due to higher oil temps. But I use the boat for pleasure and spend most of the time as lower speeds. Have three seasons on the engine with no problems. For mild engine and recreational use, standard volume pump should be fine. Good luck with your build.
    Last edited by fastmarlene; 02-01-2013 at 07:44 AM.

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    Thanks everyone, I think imma go the more "standard volume* high pressure" route. I believe it to be a 10774 mellings. I run a "m77" standard pump in my street built 468, it works fine, all is appreciated. Thanks again. All the info has helped out. I don't like to run my stuff hard, it'll be at 3500 or so cruising more than anything lol, the 5500 might get touched here and there for fun.
    "its a shame for a man to spend his whole life, not knowing what his body is truly capable of" :Socrates:

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    www.highflowdynamics.com LakesOnly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by obnoxious001 View Post
    I am going to say that it will depend on how the engine is built...
    Without knowing more details about the OP's boat, engine, and application, etc, I think this is the most prudent and wisest reply. The pump selected depends on so many variables.

    Moving along: A lot of people claim that HV pumps chew distributor gears and that is a big case of mistaken blame. Oil pressure is oil pressure, meaning that 70 psi is 70 psi regardless of whether the pump is an standard volume pump or an HV pump. The amount of load to turn an oil pump mechanism that has 25% taller gears is inconsequential to the engine's distributor gear--if such a minute change in pump design were so close to the cusp of a distributor gear loading problem then the engine manufacturers wouldn't use the standard pump volume design either. And since oil pressure is the biggest load on the distributor gear, then a high pressure standard pump pushing 80 psi will load/wear the distributor gear more than an HV pump pushing 65 psi, technically speaking. This is why in most cases of recreational engines where longevity and reliability are a big consideration we prefer to build the engine on the loose side and use an HV pump which maintains oil pressure over a wide temperature range, moves more oil when needed which lubricates, cools, cleans, acts as a seal, etc. Also in a given build, contrary to popular belief an HV pump does not move 25% more oil through the engine, it is sending approximately the same amount of oil through the engine but is bypassing more oil until the oil has become so hot and so thin (for example) that when called upon to do so the HV pump will have at its disposal the extra pumping volume to send that needed oil (which was previously being bypassed) through the engine where it is now needed due to the increased bleed-off rate that comes with the increased oil temps, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Krazykracker View Post
    Thanks everyone, I think imma go the more "standard volume* high pressure" route....I run a "m77" standard pump in my street built 468, it works fine, all is appreciated. ...it'll be at 3500 or so cruising more than anything lol, the 5500 might get touched here and there for fun.
    How well a pump maintains oil pressure in a street driven vehicle cannot be a measure for how well it will perform in a jet boat engine that is regularly running at 3500 rpm and above, with looser bearing clearances, higher than typical oil temperatures, probably more oil foaming and whipped up oil, etc. Very generally speaking, an M77 ought to be just fine in a bone stock factory marine engine with clearances tighter than HP builds. If you are currently rebuilding then you might want to provide some specs including engine displacement, bearing clearances, cam type and profile, peak rpm, targeted horsepower, jet pump brand and impeller size, etc. A standard pump might suit you fine; so might an HV pump.

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    Last edited by LakesOnly; 02-02-2013 at 09:54 AM.
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  14. #12
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    This little video from Mellings is a nice visual of how bearing clearance affects flow.


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    Thanks for the video. Nice. I was answering the question for the thread starter and he stated he had a mild 468 just like in his truck. That would probably be a pretty normal clearanced engine. Same answer use the 10774 Mellings. I also understand the need for the HV in the very high HP and loose clearanced engines. I agree, but that is not what he has. The 10774 will not empty the pan and it will carry about 10lbs. more oil pressure on a hot day when you are running hard. Have used that pump for years and swear by it.

    Duane HTP

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    Quote Originally Posted by DuaneHTP View Post
    Thanks for the video. Nice. I was answering the question for the thread starter and he stated he had a mild 468 just like in his truck. That would probably be a pretty normal clearanced engine. Same answer use the 10774 Mellings. I also understand the need for the HV in the very high HP and loose clearanced engines. I agree, but that is not what he has. The 10774 will not empty the pan and it will carry about 10lbs. more oil pressure on a hot day when you are running hard. Have used that pump for years and swear by it.

    Duane HTP
    The guy says he had a mild 468 in a truck, and goes on to say the boat engine may be similar, but no statement as to how it was built. I specifically did not say that he needs a high volume pump, but that the engines that I build, with the clearances being what they are, do need the high volume pump, and the video clearly illustrates that.

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