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Top dog pump builders?????

16K views 108 replies 41 participants last post by  Admin2 
#1 ·
How much to blue print a pump for max performance?
 
#13 ·
jet blueprinting

Mpd and B1 are as a good as it gets. But I gotta throw John Mills name in there for great pump guys. He's got many records since the early 80's with his pumps, he's located in the inland empire area of California.
John mills (951) 545-2266
 
#21 ·
How much to blue print a pump for max performance?
depends what you mean by "blue print for max performance". then it depends on what you have already, that you want to have blueprinted. that is, you may not have a pump or parts that are capable of "max performance".

X2
 
#22 ·
Personally I didnt see anything wrong with the post. He just named off a list of a few long time, very experienced builders that might should have been mentioned before some new younger coat tail rider. Who the hell do you recon he was referring too? :dunno:
 
#23 ·
Nothing wrong with this type of language? Don't think this is very productive conversation.



It really doesnt matter. He created an alias after being banned so he could come on here and make a few jabs.
 
#25 ·
He created an alias after being banned so he could come on here and make a few jabs.
It got deleted and all of the replies did also.
But a conspiracy theory is a lot more entertaining.
 
#27 ·
There are a lot of good pump builders at depending on your location in the states. Quite a few have been named already.

My opinion and choice is CS19 at B1 Racing. He learned a lot while working for years and years over at MPD, has taken it to another level in my opinion.

Shoemaker @ GS Marine helped Greg Harris in the UBFJ I was driving by leaps and bounds. He is also a top choice. Tons of experience right there.

Hope that helps.
 
#29 ·
I think the Op just asked a simple question and it still has not been answered.
To the Op:
When I 1st done my pump with Tom Morrow with a total rebuild,new SS impeller, inducer, and all the machine work that went with it, it was alittle over $2000

It really just depends on what your starting out with and what parts your gonna have to buy to do the job right.
 
#30 ·
All of this banter is ridiculous. Everyone of the aforementioned pump builders is more than capable of producing and delivering a quality pump rebuild whether it be full race or just getting the job done for your specific purpose. I had my pump rebuilt six yeas ago by my good friend Scott Bouchet. He called me the other night to ask me what I had planned for a rebuild. I told him I planned on taking my pump to Chris at B 1. He told me good choice, he did not have the time to hook me up at this time (Free) and that he was sure that Chris would do a great job. Scott also told me to make sure that Chris point out any mistakes that he might have made on the six year old rebuild of my pump. Scott is a master machinist and a perfectionist. I am sure he has built a few pumps for people you know that have been in the racing game for awhile. Does the name Racial Riot come to mind? Get over it folks. Send your junk to the closest and most reputable person you can find. The aforementioned builders will give you the results you are looking for.
If not, buy a lathe, experiment and do your own thing. Your results may vary. I'm done for now.
HD
 
#31 ·
have never heard the name racial riot.

there are many people that can rebuild a pump. but "blueprinting for maximum performance" is beyond a rebuild. and depending how far a person wants to go (i.e., how you need to define "maximum performance"), it can be way way beyond a generic rebuild. a lot of performance improvement that has nothing to do with a lathe. just sayin... the op still hasn't come back to indicate what "level" of performance he really wants/needs. hard to even make a guess on price without knowing that, or knowing what he already has for a pump.
 
#33 ·
I have had the opportunity to work for Chris at B1 Racing for about a year now. Observing Chris’ business practices, customer satisfaction is top priority. Chris spends the time with his customers to ensure that the work that is done is RIGHT for the customer’s needs and budget.

Every pump that goes through B1 Racing is cleaned and inspected. On assembly, EVERY clearance is checked and brought within the appropriate limit. Up until two years ago when I met Chris, I thought I had a pretty good handle on what it takes to make a jet boat perform. Like my other passion of cylinder head port flow, I realized that the more I learn about the topic, the more I realize I really don’t know.

I think that it is important to explore exactly what “brought within the appropriate limit” means. No two pumps, from what I could tell, are done exactly the same way. Sometimes this is influenced by customer. Always, this is influenced by the performance level of the boat.

Based on the question of the OP, “How much to blue print a pump for max performance?”, assuming that this is a max effort application involving detail work of the bowl, impeller, etc.; lowest price is not the driving factor. For example, several factors, including horsepower, will influence the shape of the trailing edge of the fins in the bowl. It is these factors that I have been trying to wrap my head around. There is a lot more to “blueprinting” a pump than just setting the clearances. It is the engineering behind any design that sets the work on anything apart. On the topic of this engineering, Chris told me, “I did the development work, I did the machine work, I had the seat time, and I collected and analyzed the data. It is this experience that I think sets B1 Racing apart. Chris is an honest businessman and an industry innovator. You will not be disappointed in his work.

Re: John Mills

I recently had the opportunity to meet John Mills. He is a wealth of knowledge and an exceptionally nice guy. John was actually my first choice for pump work as he has done several for my pumps for my friends Sloan and Joe Bateman; however he was unavailable at the time. I have not been able to see much of his work but I know Joe and Sloan ran real hard. Rob and John were kind enough to share much of the work on the Red Pearl as it was going together and John freely shared a lot of his knowledge with me. Though I still don’t understand the inner contouring design and its effects, John’s work looks very meticulous and looking around John’s shop, it is very evident that a lot of heart and soul goes into all of his work.

Re: Jack at MPD

Jack at MPD is who I chose to do buy my parts from and detail my impeller. Internet search after search led me back to one place, MPD. If you spend any time lurking this forum like I have, Jack’s reputation precedes him. Jack was very good about working with me as I was going to do most of the work myself. He spent a lot of time with me, making sure that I understood all of the clearances as well as understanding all of the work that he was doing. In fact, Jack was the first person, in the performance industry, that didn’t make me feel like I was wasting his time for spending less than $100K at one time.

In conclusion to my lengthy cheerleading rant, anybody spending any time reading about performance engines has at least leaned (hopefully) that a performance engine package needs to work together as a system. Something seemingly as simple as a jet pump is part of a much more complex system which needs to work as part of and compliment that system. There is really a lot of work involved in detailing a bowl and an impeller. The revenue earned from performing the detail work does not really justify doing the work. It is comparable to porting cylinder heads. Keep in mind that there is nothing that can’t be done cheaper by sacrificing quality. Flow benches for jet pumps simply do not exist like those for cylinder heads, so it is not possible to compare pumps from different shops by flow number.

Choose a pump shop that will address your needs and build you a pump that is matched to your application. It is possible that your existing pump may not get you to the performance level that you are looking for, however the performance of any pump can be improved with substantial results that you will feel and see in your time slip. How much money you will spend depends on how crazy you get with work done and parts. The old saying, “Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go?” comes to mind.

Cheers,

Joe
 
This post has been deleted
#34 ·
Ervin Capps is another builder that needs mentioned in the elite top few. he has been doing this longer and had his hands on more boats than just about anyone out there. I know many people that have had his work on thier pumps , as well as my own and always a happy ending.
He is out of Eureka Springs, Arkansas. 1-479-981-9241
 
#35 · (Edited)
Let me ask a question here. As there seems to be some snake oil-black majic that goes along with the pump work.
Once the proper sized Impeller & inducer are detailed, new bearing, new wear ring with nice tight tolerances on both sides of the impeller. A nice deburing of the bowl. As long as the jet has the proper hardware for the boat(shoe, loader, rideplate angle, droop, nozzle diameter) What else do you guys think is going to give you a huge gain? Do you believe that because some majician did some rubbin on your bowl that some Genie is going to appear?

Just because you can pay more doesnt always mean that you get more. Just sayin.
 
#42 ·
I've never had anyone try and sell me a snake oil process.

There are some things a pump builder can do that is just outstanding. For instance MPD did my pump. The dimensions of the bowl impeller etc are all exactly the same. If an impeller change is needed a different MPD detailed impeller will go right in with no shimming process. Even the MPD impeller I have from the 80's will go right in my 2011 pump.
 
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