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pump blueprinting

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    Senior Member $uperJoe's Avatar
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    Default pump blueprinting

    is this term an actual process, or is it more of an art at the discretion of the artist? i know anyone with some very simple hand tools can buy a pump kit and get it back to like new condition very easily. like new condition in pumps, as with anything mass produced, has quite a variable for tolerances. i also understand that there are very talented guys with very impressive gains and the track numbers show this. no way around this, numbers dont lie. i must preface im not taking anything away from any true pump pro. i just dont understand whats done to be called "blueprinted"

    reason i ask this is related to a similar engine building process. its almost always put together "balanced and blueprinted" when any guy that has a modified engine is listing the mods done. the balanced part is a very easy to understand process but the term blueprinting is almost never actually properly executed in a standard garage situation and what they actually have is a build list of what was assembled, opposed to an actual blueprint. this is mostly due to cost of an actual blueprint, and why most true engine blueprints are done by the elite racing teams that are heavily sponsored.

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    gn7
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    Quote Originally Posted by $uperJoe View Post

    reason i ask this is related to a similar engine building process. its almost always put together "balanced and blueprinted" when any guy that has a modified engine is listing the mods done. the balanced part is a very easy to understand process but the term blueprinting is almost never actually properly executed in a standard garage situation and what they actually have is a build list of what was assembled, opposed to an actual blueprint. this is mostly due to cost of an actual blueprint, and why most true engine blueprints are done by the elite racing teams that are heavily sponsored.
    You related to ChopShop?

    Can you please clarify what you mean by this. You start this post with a question, and end it with a statement. You are a little confusing. All my engines are built in a garage, and they are almost always blueprinted. Lots of engines built by members here, in their garages, are blueprinted. Blueprinting is not all that expensive for a do it yourself builder. But it is time consuming.



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    Senior Member 67weiman's Avatar
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    I think you are misunderstanding what the term blueprinted means when it comes to motor or pump building. But anyway, yes, spending more time "blueprinting" your pump, ie shimming it, machining, to get the EXACT tolerance you want, not just "within spec" would in my opinion be worth a small gain... But again, Wtf do I know???

    Flame on!

    Oh, and my shit box was built in my garage.
    Last edited by 67weiman; 02-18-2013 at 10:08 PM.

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    Senior Member $uperJoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    You related to ChopShop?

    Can you please clarify what you mean by this. You start this post with a question, and end it with a statement. You are a little confusing. All my engines are built in a garage, and they are almost always blueprinted. Lots of engines built by members here, in their garages, are blueprinted. Blueprinting is not all that expensive for a do it yourself builder. But it is time consuming.
    hahaha, no relation but i do see what i did. the truely skilled engine builders that have the means and knoweledge to blueprint an engine, most certainly will. in my explanation i was trying to example how some , usually the excessivly cocky and also excessivly ignorant, will say their build was "balanced and blueprinted" because that is what they were told, when they picked up the parts from machine to assemble it. the process is very time consuming indeed, and if your paying someone else to do the work, the blueprinting is expensive in that aspect. again it was just an example towards the question, is there a set standard for blueprinting a pump, or is it up to the descression of the builder to call it blueprinted?

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    gn7
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    The world is full of "assemblers" that put things together within specs and say its blueprinted.



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    From what I have learned, the original blueprint specs from any pump manufacturer are acceptable for “freshening up” a pump that will be used in the family station wagon ski boat. Keep in mind, one grain of sand wedged between the impeller and wear ring is enough to stall a stock big block. That same grain of sand on a boat making good power will spin the wear ring right out of the suction housing. Therefore, the clearances on your average family boat will always be loose compared to that of a race boat. But there is much more to making a pump work than just setting the clearances. A real “pump pro” will base his modifications on real world testing and data acquisition. As a machinist, I can tell you that there is a real art to the work that is being done. But just because there is an art to the work, that doesn’t mean that there isn’t real science driving the shape, size, and surface finish of the inside of that pump. In the two years that I have known Chris of B1 Racing, I have never heard him use the term “blueprinted”. However, I have frequently heard him say, in response to one of my questions or ideas, “The data indicates...”.

    IMO, the phrase “balanced and blueprinted”, that is a good indication that whoever tells you that, doesn’t have a clue. If you are talking to the person who assembled the engine, and they are not able to produce a list of clearances, cam card, head flow data, dyno sheets, and of course balance cards; that engine is really worth more as parts than as a running complete engine.

    Cheers,

    Joe

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flusher View Post

    IMO, the phrase “balanced and blueprinted”, that is a good indication that whoever tells you that, doesn’t have a clue. If you are talking to the person who assembled the engine, and they are not able to produce a list of clearances, cam card, head flow data, dyno sheets, and of course balance cards; that engine is really worth more as parts than as a running complete engine.

    Cheers,

    Joe
    True That!! This makes a great catch phrase when posting on Craig's list, usually followed by "does well over 100mph."

    A quote from the book," How To Hotrod Big Block Chevy" Blueprinting;



    "Despite all of the long standing mystery and confusion associated with the term, blueprinting simply means rebuilding an engine to an exacting set of specifications. Some of these details are those originally set down by the factory. More often than not, however,the tolerances involved in rebuilding any high performance engine very slightly from factory rebuild specs. The thoroughness and care with which each component (and this goes for the last bolt you tighten)is measured and inspected pays off not only in added horsepower, but extended engine life.
    Can an engine be blueprinted in a small garage or a hobby shop? Yes, but! Unless you are well equipped with tools and some special equipment, the job will be extremely difficult and very slow for the beginning builder. Because of special equipment needed for some steps, some operations may have to be by-passed, but for the most part an engine can be blueprinted in most any garage or workshop maintained by a performance enthusiast who is serious about this hobby."


    I think for most enthusiasts, they start out just assembling engines or pumps. As we figure out what all these pieces do and how they inter-relate, and as we ask more and more from these engines, we realize how each component contributes to the final product and how critical even the smallest pieces become.
    If you've been around any motor sports, you've heard about the .50 cent part that cost some a race or even a motor.
    There's been several threads started lately about different components of an engine and how critical are they really in the end. My answer is, at 2000rpm cruising down the freeway with a gas station at every exit, something "good enough" may be acceptable. A race or performance motor fully loaded at WOT, good enough isn't an acceptable term anymore. It's either right or it's not.

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    Super Moderator HammerDown's Avatar
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    What, no mention about 'stacking clearances'?
    Rookies
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    Quote Originally Posted by HammerDown View Post
    What, no mention about 'stacking clearances'?
    Rookies
    That is the redneck term.

    The correct machinist term is an accumulation of tolerances.
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    45 years ago the finished process for engines was called "Balanced and Clearanced". I've had lots of those types of engines, but have yet to have a "Blueprinted" engine.

    Maybe the day after Publishers Clearing House leaves me the BIG CHECK, I'll start on one.

    Never had a "Blueprinted" Pump either, but may have to break down and have one done soon.
    Last edited by Rvr Rcr; 02-21-2013 at 01:51 PM.

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    Senior Member Futs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rvr Rcr View Post
    45 years ago the finished process for engines was called "Balanced and Clearanced". I've had lots of those types of engines, but have yet to have a "Blueprinted" engine.

    Maybe the day after Publishers Clearing House leaves me the BIG CHECK, I'll start on one.

    Never had a "Blueprinted" Pump either, but may have to break down and have one done soon.
    i heard if you drive it to long it turns "BLUE"...........

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    Quote Originally Posted by Futs View Post
    i heard if you drive it to long it turns "BLUE"...........
    Yeah, headers do that! Get it?

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    Senior Member 2002CP19's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Futs View Post
    i heard if you drive it to long it turns "BLUE"...........
    Dont be a PUTS...
    Quote Originally Posted by schick View Post
    Hold it firmly on the ground, a few pelvic thrusts should do the trick. If not repeat till satisfied!

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    Senior Member bp298's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by $uperJoe View Post
    hahaha, no relation but i do see what i did. the truely skilled engine builders that have the means and knoweledge to blueprint an engine, most certainly will. in my explanation i was trying to example how some , usually the excessivly cocky and also excessivly ignorant, will say their build was "balanced and blueprinted" because that is what they were told, when they picked up the parts from machine to assemble it. the process is very time consuming indeed, and if your paying someone else to do the work, the blueprinting is expensive in that aspect. again it was just an example towards the question, is there a set standard for blueprinting a pump, or is it up to the descression of the builder to call it blueprinted?
    if you had a higher hp flatbottom, how would you decide which prop to put on the thing? if you ask any flat guy on the forum which is prop gives "max performance", and you get an answer, then what? it's gonna cost more than x, y, z, or even a, b, or c. so what decision do you make? do you feel like abcxyz will perform "almost" as well as "the answer", so go with something less costly, or do you want the best performance out of the pump that you can possibly get??? what could possibly make one any better than the other; they're both just pieces of metal with a couple ears. aside from length and pitch, can't be anything that much different about 'em...

    think of a cylinder head porter porting heads and intake manifold. a lot of hand tool work. if you've never done it before, never been exposed to it, you could go buy some tools and do it yourself in the garage. can't be that complicated. but it may not turn out quite the way it was imagined. same with pumps. if you're hung up on the term ("blueprint"), think of it in some other way.

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