Berkley Pump needs work (Advice please)
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Berkley Pump needs work (Advice please)

  1. #1
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    Default Berkley Pump needs work (Advice please)

    So the boat got wet for the first time since I got it (1Year ago). Had to rebuild the eng. (BBF 460)

    I had a few issues the first time out though and would appreciate any wisdom/advice so I can run it this weekend maybe...

    1. The engine has to run like 4100rpm to keep the boat on plane...Dunno what the MPH is...(Pump must need work) The impeller is chewed up a bit and the pump whines a bit as well.

    2. Because the eng. has to run such high RPM's I think attributes to the 190-210 degree temps as well?? I run no thermostat becasue it was running way too hot with it (160o stat) and apparently restricted some needed flow. When I took it out the temps went down by 20-30o...The Spicket valve is opened all the way. Would a warn pump provide less water flow to the eng??

    3. I have 2 deep cycle batts and they crank the engine easily. I started the eng. right up to run it after taking the stat out. Then I shut down to inspect for leaks. Then the starter would not crank the eng. well enough to start the boat back up. Used a Jump box later & ran it back to the docks. Brought it home and it cranked right over easily and fired right up...I don't get it...The Alt. is NEW...

    4. I am getting a lil bit of oil out of the dipstick tube. It puddles up on the timing cover. I have one breather on the vlv. cover...Oil pressure ranges from 75psi cold to 40-60psi running hot.

    5. I would like to run the boat this season and do a complete and proper upgrade/rebuild of the pump (Berk JE) over the winter (don't have the scratch to put $2K+ into the pump right now). So what can I do to get by the rest of the season. I don't want to destroy anything. Also, all I do with the boat is pull a tube or skier and hangout on the beach. I can't afford to run the boat all day long...;-)

    Thanks in advance for any help or advice.

    Cheers,

    Brad
    77' Spectra BBF460

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    senior member turbo wog's Avatar
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    try filing the burrs of the impeller for starters , if the burrs are bad enough they could cause cavitation,

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    Boat Nut sleekcrafter's Avatar
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    Since you mentioned a whine, better stop using it, or the costs will far exceed 2K. The whine is an indication the thrust bearing is toast, meaning the impeller is machining it's way foreward thru your suction housing. 4100 rpm's is more excess than a simple filing on the impeller will fix as well. Better have it looked at soon, or everything will need replaced. You an get rebuild kits reasonable, with impellers, and w/r included. A rebuild would be less than 1K, something like 750-800 for stock, or do-it-yourself for less. Once the suction housing is toast your done, start looking for a new housing or new pump. Good luck
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    Boat Nut sleekcrafter's Avatar
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    hard start or no crank...any chance your getting water in thru the exhaust?? Are you flappers in good shape meaning they don't get sucked in when stutting down in the water. Might pull your block drains and see if the blocks full of sand, for the extreme temps, a hot motor, and too much timing can cause that too. Check them exhaust flappers first.
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    E-7 Sheepdog (ret) SmokinLowriderSS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cudaz101 View Post
    1. The engine has to run like 4100rpm to keep the boat on plane...Dunno what the MPH is...(Pump must need work) The impeller is chewed up a bit and the pump whines a bit as well.
    Filing/sanding to clean up burrs, and do all angle making in the edge away from you (don't create an angle on teh front face of the blades).

    Quote Originally Posted by cudaz101 View Post
    2. Because the eng. has to run such high RPM's I think attributes to the 190-210 degree temps as well?? I run no thermostat becasue it was running way too hot with it (160o stat) and apparently restricted some needed flow. When I took it out the temps went down by 20-30o...The Spicket valve is opened all the way. Would a warn pump provide less water flow to the eng??
    Possible. A worn pump makes the same bowl pressure at a higher RPM, due to internal pressure "leakage". The engine cooling water is fed from the high-pressure part of the pump. Lower pressure there will provide less water. Higher engine RPM generates more engine heat.


    Quote Originally Posted by cudaz101 View Post
    3. I have 2 deep cycle batts and they crank the engine easily. I started the eng. right up to run it after taking the stat out. Then I shut down to inspect for leaks. Then the starter would not crank the eng. well enough to start the boat back up. Used a Jump box later & ran it back to the docks. Brought it home and it cranked right over easily and fired right up...I don't get it...The Alt. is NEW...
    Deep cycle batteries are for running electric trolling motors and stereos, NOT for cranking an engine. They are made to provide 10 to 20 amps of current for hours on end, not to provide 200 to 300+ amps a starter demands to spin an engine over.
    A warm engine will have different cranking demands, often higher than a cold engine (not considering 0*F cold, but 90* ambient "cold).

    Quote Originally Posted by cudaz101 View Post
    4. I am getting a lil bit of oil out of the dipstick tube. It puddles up on the timing cover. I have one breather on the vlv. cover...Oil pressure ranges from 75psi cold to 40-60psi running hot.
    PCV?
    If not, install one.

    Quote Originally Posted by cudaz101 View Post
    5. I would like to run the boat this season and do a complete and proper upgrade/rebuild of the pump (Berk JE) over the winter (don't have the scratch to put $2K+ into the pump right now). So what can I do to get by the rest of the season. I don't want to destroy anything. Also, all I do with the boat is pull a tube or skier and hangout on the beach. I can't afford to run the boat all day long...;-)
    An overhaul kit can be had for as little as $400 or so, and done yourself (very simple device the jet pump is), and that includes new Aluminum impeller if you aren't running a lot of rocks thru it or a lot of HP into it.
    Simple afternoon project.


    Good luck.
    "As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
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    OBAMA: Some people deserve this.
    The rest of us are being dragged along kicking and screaming.

  8. #6
    I never hit bottom. 79Challenger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cudaz101 View Post

    3. I have 2 deep cycle batts and they crank the engine easily. I started the eng. right up to run it after taking the stat out. Then I shut down to inspect for leaks. Then the starter would not crank the eng. well enough to start the boat back up. Used a Jump box later & ran it back to the docks. Brought it home and it cranked right over easily and fired right up...I don't get it...The Alt. is NEW...


    Cheers,

    Brad
    Ignition timing to much?

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    Thanks for the Great replies fellas...=)

    I went ahead and toar my pump apart...I can't get the stinkin' bigass nut off that holds the impeller on though. Dat bish won't budge... Almost thought it might be a lefthand thread but its not...WTF??

    My tail shaft seals let water through so there was a milkshake in the aft part of the bowl. Those bushing seals look like they are pressed in. What kind of bish is that do remove and replace?? I have alot of tools but no compressor.

    My timing is only advanced 21o so that should not be a problem..??

    I had a bad exh. flapper and made one out of a nice chunk of rubber I had. I suppose either one or both could be failing. I will have to check that out. Thanks.

    We shizzz...I didnt know that deep cycle batts were just for the accessories & shizz. Guess I will have a spare Deep Cycle batt..=)

    I just plumbed a Breather in the vlv. cover...So I need to setup a PCV system then?? Are you suggesting remove the Breather in place of a PCV and plumb the PCV into my lil marine air cleaner or somewhere on the intake manifold??

    Thanks again fellas!! Doubt I will be getting wet the 4th but at least it should be soon..

    Cheers

    Brad
    77' Spectra BBF460

  10. #8
    senior member turbo wog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleekcrafter View Post
    Since you mentioned a whine, better stop using it, or the costs will far exceed 2K. The whine is an indication the thrust bearing is toast, meaning the impeller is machining it's way foreward thru your suction housing. 4100 rpm's is more excess than a simple filing on the impeller will fix as well. Better have it looked at soon, or everything will need replaced. You an get rebuild kits reasonable, with impellers, and w/r included. A rebuild would be less than 1K, something like 750-800 for stock, or do-it-yourself for less. Once the suction housing is toast your done, start looking for a new housing or new pump. Good luck
    yeh your right , i missed the whine part

  11. #9
    jetboataholic HawaiianJet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cudaz101 View Post
    Thanks for the Great replies fellas...=)

    I went ahead and toar my pump apart...I can't get the stinkin' bigass nut off that holds the impeller on though. Dat bish won't budge... Almost thought it might be a lefthand thread but its not...WTF??

    My tail shaft seals let water through so there was a milkshake in the aft part of the bowl. Those bushing seals look like they are pressed in. What kind of bish is that do remove and replace?? I have alot of tools but no compressor.

    My timing is only advanced 21o so that should not be a problem..??

    I had a bad exh. flapper and made one out of a nice chunk of rubber I had. I suppose either one or both could be failing. I will have to check that out. Thanks.

    We shizzz...I didnt know that deep cycle batts were just for the accessories & shizz. Guess I will have a spare Deep Cycle batt..=)

    I just plumbed a Breather in the vlv. cover...So I need to setup a PCV system then?? Are you suggesting remove the Breather in place of a PCV and plumb the PCV into my lil marine air cleaner or somewhere on the intake manifold??

    Thanks again fellas!! Doubt I will be getting wet the 4th but at least it should be soon..

    Cheers

    Brad
    What are you using to keep the shaft from spinning? What are you using on the nut, a big ass crescent wrench or a 1-13/16" extended socket or wrench? Have you tried hitting the wrench with a few good blows from a dead blow hammer? Is your nut made out of stainless steel or aluminum? If you are very careful, you can apply a good penetrating oil, put some heat into the nut with a torch, and then try torquing on it. But, remember you only want to heat up the nut, not the shaft or the impeller! If all other methods fail to remove the nut, you will have to cut it off. The easiest way is with a die grinder w/ a cut-off wheel, but since you don't have an air compressor, this might be a difficult option. If it really comes down to it, you can take the pump to a good machine shop and they should be able to do it for you. Of course you have to be careful nut to go too deep and hit the threads. You shouldn't have to cut all the way down, just make 4-8 deep diagonal cuts around the nut, then try to remove it. But if that doesn't work and it's really seized on there, start cutting out some chunks from one side of the nut. You might also be able to use a punch and a hammer to spin the nut, after you cut some meat off of it. If you accidentally nick a thread, just get a thread file and clean em' up.

    The next problem you will run into after you get the nut off, is that the impeller will be stuck on there. The best way, is to buy the special impeller puller they make. Unfortunately, they cost about $130. You can get away with using a 3 jaw bearing puller, but it is very risky and you must be very very careful because if you break the lip off the impeller, then you're screwed.

    Best way to remove the bowl bushings is with a press and a mandrel, basically a piece of round stock machined with a step down on the end to support the inside of the bushing, this will also eliminate the risk of forming a burr on the inside of the bushing when you go to put the new ones in. If you don't have access to a press, you should take it to a good machine shop, and they can make the mandrel, press the old ones out for you, and put the new ones in. It should only be about a 30 minute job (including time to turn the mandrel), if you take it to a machine shop, so it shouldn't cost too much. Probably around $40-$50 bucks.

    Good luck and have fun with it!!!
    HJ

    ***FOR SALE*** 1978 19' Full Stringer Hawaiian Molokai Jet Boat w/ Berkeley 12JC-AB and Chevy 440 Tall Deck ***FOR SALE***

    Quote Originally Posted by mako shark mark View Post
    Oh yeah, Forgot to mention that the hull is a special mixture of speedcote, herculiner and rain-x, all blended together- good for another 8 mph top end.

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    I changed the bowl bearings and seals in mine several years ago with a plane-jane bearing/seal driver set, and a hammer.

    Took off the nut that closes off the aft end of the passage, drove the bearings out foreward pushing the seal out ahead of them. Then drove one bearing in to the far side, drove the other bearing in to the near side, drove the seal in. voila! Took about 10 minuites tops, once I started tapping parts thru.

    I do mean TAPPING, didn't have to beat anything, just mild hammer work, not swings.
    "As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
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    Boat Nut sleekcrafter's Avatar
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    If you have the steel lock nut, your best bet would be cut the nut, with a cut off wheel, and split it with a chisel. Try to find the key way and make the cut there, as to not damage the threads, during the process. Some times the nuts will remove the threads off the shaft. Better safe than sorry, as used shafts cost $150 and up.
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    Thanks again fellas...Will get to work..=)

    Cheers

    Brad
    77' Spectra BBF460

  15. #13
    Senior Member hotkona's Avatar
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    Default berkley pump needs work

    I see that you are in Washington. Tony Skagen is THE MAN for pumps and knowledge! Try www.skagenboats.com
    He is very reasonable about prices. We are on a budget, and know how you feel. I think it was about $500 ? for a full rebuild on our Berk and it runs great.
    Oh ya, ten degrees of timing is good, any more may lead to hot motors. Also if you jet it alittle on the rich side, it will help cooling.

    Paul

    http://www.skagenboats.com

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