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need some loading help!!

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    mo balls than $cents$ IMPATIENT 1's Avatar
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    Default need some loading help!!

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    well, had a great time over the weekend, my boat ran very hard, no motor issues, but i'm still having hell making it past 700ft without blowing the pump. i watched the intake pressure gauge and at 400ft i had 50psi, and by the time i'm at 700ft its down to 15-20psi i'm running my shoe at keel level, open loader 1/16th above keel, ride plate is straight and set at 4.5 degrees up from keel. i installed a dps inducer , race shaft, and uwr prior to racing last weekend but it made no difference in how the boat loaded on the end of the track no better, no worse. i've changed shoe depth, i've changed ride plate angle, i've changed nozze angle, it just won't stay hooked. i'm leaning towards the droop as the issue, i think it's just createing way to much transom lift and by the time i'm 3/4 down the track, the boat is flying to high and unloads. tried all my divertor settings trying to keep it loaded , but nothing helped. any thoughts?

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    Senior Member Widetrack's Avatar
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    Tom I tried the short droop and it seamed to help mine. I am no pump setup guru! If that does not work call Scott he might be able to help you out! WT

    Coby

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    Quote Originally Posted by Widetrack View Post
    Tom I tried the short droop and it seamed to help mine. I am no pump setup guru! If that does not work call Scott he might be able to help you out! WT

    Coby
    think it's gonna take a straight snoot to keep it in the water, i'm looking for 1 now i'll leave flatter and have less transom lift with a snoot i think, will have to try 1 1st to see.

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    Intake opening measurement ? How large is the intake opening ? More than likely your "transom lift" is coming from the back-cut shoe (I think you are running) with the power your engine is making (800+ ? ). Measure the intake opening from the front of the mounting pad for the intake grate to the leading edge of the shoe(center). What rpms are you turning ?

    You might want to try a flat shoe or go back to a tapered shoe with a larger opening. Also my CP never liked open center intake grates. Even if the blocker was only 3" long they always seemed to "channel" the water better than an open intake.

    Hope that helps.

    Sleeper CP
    Last edited by Sleeper CP; 07-07-2008 at 01:11 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleeper CP View Post
    Intake opening measurement ? How large is the intake opening ? More than likely your "transom lift" is coming from the back-cut shoe (I think you are running) with the power your engine is making (800+ ? ). Measure the intake opening from the front of the mounting pad for the intake grate to the leading edge of the shoe(center). What rpms are you turning ?

    You might want to try a flat shoe or go back to a tapered shoe with a larger opening. Also my CP never liked open center intake grates. Even if the blocker was only 3" long they always seemed to "channel" the water better than an open intake.

    Hope that helps.

    Sleeper CP
    i'm already runnin a tapered shoe, have the biting edge at keel level. i lowered it friday nite in preparation for the races the next day and it still shuts down easy for me, i don't just yank out, i ease out, girls like it that way not sure on the opening, i'll measure it tonite. it honestly feels and looks(from what peeps on the shore tell me) that my boat just gets way too dry and cavitates. i did my best to run the boat flatter and i did run it pretty flat all weekend, but its still flying high and running outta water. i DO NOT wanna have to hang the shoe below keel to keep it hooked, so i'm guessing losing the droop altogether , runnin a snoot would help, the shoe is giving all the lift i need back there. i'm really frazzled on this issue
    waz cracking cp? yall have a good 1?

    i've got a semi blocked loader i could try , but it gave alot of transom lift too, it'd prob be a step in the wrong direction. the loader under it came new from tom at jbp, i trimmed it till its a 1/16th above keel and shoe.

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    sorry, forgot the rpms. on motor i turn the aggressor a to 5700-5800 with about 40psi of intake pressure, the pumps loading well enough just on motor. the 1st stage takes me to 6500-6600 and 50-55psi, and when i bring the 2nd stage in, it bumps me up to 7400-7500 intake pressure spikes to 60psi and then starts falling off steadily till its at 15-20psi and the boat quits accelerating, motor hits the limiter. i can let outta the 2nd stage completely, intake pressure climbs back up to 50ish and the boat starts pulling hard again. i'm blaming it on excessive transom lift since i'm no longer flying the boat bow high anymore, its runnin flat, just still airs out more than i want it too

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    Senior Member OkieDave's Avatar
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    Tom, I usually try to run the shoe 1/16 to 1/8 below keel in the center of the keel. Some say no but thats the way I was told yrs ago by Bruce Simmons and my stuff always runs good. I would try putting the ride plate more like 1-2 degrees up from keel line.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OkieDave View Post
    Tom, I usually try to run the shoe 1/16 to 1/8 below keel in the center of the keel. Some say no but thats the way I was told yrs ago by Bruce Simmons and my stuff always runs good. I would try putting the ride plate more like 1-2 degrees up from keel line.
    may have to try that dave, i've hung a shoe 1/4 below keel before just to make my sj hook up(12je pump) and i got used to that shutdown, may just bring it down more and see wtf it does.
    i've tried from 2-6 degrees of plate angle, no difference other than how the boat launches. the pics from the weekend should be on the youngblood site soon, maybe they got some race shots of my boat and i can post em up. i've made the boat run flat like everyone told me too, but it's still not right at all. i've got another 300hp i can't put to the water



    does anybody have a quikdata log of a race pass on a quik gullwing? i'd like to see how the pressure reacts down the track to a boat that runs right.

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    other than keel changes(my bottom is flawless, the gel is perfect, everything is straight), there has to be something i'm overlooking here, cause there's plenty of tx-19's runnin in the 115's with the same hp i'm putting out. its aggravating knowing i've got the hp, yet i can put it to the water next wk i'll be on the lake for 5days, and i'm gonna fix this issue and break 115 in the same 5days its my goal and i WILL meet it

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    Quote Originally Posted by IMPATIENT 1 View Post
    sorry, forgot the rpms. on motor i turn the aggressor a to 5700-5800 with about 40psi of intake pressure, the pumps loading well enough just on motor. the 1st stage takes me to 6500-6600 and 50-55psi, and when i bring the 2nd stage in, it bumps me up to 7400-7500 intake pressure spikes to 60psi and then starts falling off steadily till its at 15-20psi and the boat quits accelerating, motor hits the limiter. i can let outta the 2nd stage completely, intake pressure climbs back up to 50ish and the boat starts pulling hard again. i'm blaming it on excessive transom lift since i'm no longer flying the boat bow high anymore, its runnin flat, just still airs out more than i want it too

    Okay,

    Aggressor A: 5,700-5,800, 40 psi = ? mph

    : 6,500- 6,600 @ 50 psi = ? mph

    : 7,400--7,500 = ? mph

    You may have reached the limitations of your (our) Hull design. There is a reason Shoemakers and other started racing the Pickel Fork.

    I would think at 6,600 with an A you should be in the mid 100 ( teens) . I think that is about the limit you want to push your Gullwing. IMO.

    Sleeper CP

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleeper CP View Post
    Okay,

    Aggressor A: 5,700-5,800, 40 psi = ? mph

    : 6,500- 6,600 @ 50 psi = ? mph

    : 7,400--7,500 = ? mph

    You may have reached the limitations of your (our) Hull design. There is a reason Shoemakers and other started racing the Pickel Fork.

    I would think at 6,600 with an A you should be in the mid 100 ( teens) . I think that is about the limit you want to push your Gullwing. IMO.

    Sleeper CP
    what's the saying : push the envelope, watch it bend

    5700-5800 40 psi 96-97 on gps
    6500-6600 50psi 102-105 gps with a small 100hp shot(runnin a nitrous cam, so the small shot puts me on the cam, and should be making another 200hp over what i make at 5800)
    7400-7500 the intake pressure goes to shit (15-20psi) and the boat slows till i let outta the 2nd stage(200hp more)

    i'm not doubting its gonna be time for a tunnel soon, i just wanna max out this hull 1st, learn to drive it properly then make the step up to a cheyenne. i've tried to step up gradually since i started jetting. started out with a 21ft taylor sc daycrusier, sold it and bought the 78 taylor sj 18ftr pushed it to its limits, found this tx, bought it and sold the sj. it'll be time to sell the tx next spring, but until then i wanna push this biatch all the way down the track , the way it does the 1st 3/4 of the track there's another 10mph there, i can feel it wanting to go faster, i just need to figure out how to keep the pump loaded without keel work(my bottom is flawless, straight,nice polished gel, no hooks, nada ). i see other guys local doin 115 in there's and they've got less hp available, so there's no reason i can't do the same, and do it quiker when i clik off my 1st 115mph pass on gps, i'll start looking for a tunnel and sell the gullwing but until, the pursuit will continue
    Last edited by IMPATIENT 1; 07-08-2008 at 09:32 AM.

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    If I could get 40 psi out of mine at 6,200 I'm pretty sure it would be doing 105+/-. I wish I could feed it that much.

    I think 1/4 miler is spot on about the bottom. You may not be able to load it without changing the bottom or hanging the shoe 1/16th below or more. I'd start by shiming it 1/16th below before I did anything else.

    Sleeper CP

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleeper CP View Post
    If I could get 40 psi out of mine at 6,200 I'm pretty sure it would be doing 105+/-. I wish I could feed it that much.

    I think 1/4 miler is spot on about the bottom. You may not be able to load it without changing the bottom or hanging the shoe 1/16th below or more. I'd start by shiming it 1/16th below before I did anything else.

    Sleeper CP
    the aggressor a holds the motor back too much without nitrous, but that's what i was shooting for. i had the boat runnin 100+ on motor with a a.t. b-cut but i was turnin a shitload of rpms(66--6700) and it was still having the loading issue up top. i made the change to the aggressor a, pulled the rpms way down which i like, and only gave up 3-4mph for the change, yet it et's like with a nite and day difference between the a.t. and aggressor impellors! i'm more than happy runnin a tad under 100 on motor and barely working the motor doin it
    sleeper, you're beginning to make me think i'm overcharging the pump and that's creating the tail lift at 700ft maybe its the difference in where i tapped the pump compared to where you tapped?i'm a inch in frt of the wearring boss, at 9 oclock, almost fully behind the inducer.

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    Senior Member Boat 405's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IMPATIENT 1 View Post
    the aggressor a holds the motor back too much without nitrous, but that's what i was shooting for. i had the boat runnin 100+ on motor with a a.t. b-cut but i was turnin a shitload of rpms(66--6700) and it was still having the loading issue up top. i made the change to the aggressor a, pulled the rpms way down which i like, and only gave up 3-4mph for the change, yet it et's like with a nite and day difference between the a.t. and aggressor impellors! i'm more than happy runnin a tad under 100 on motor and barely working the motor doin it
    sleeper, you're beginning to make me think i'm overcharging the pump and that's creating the tail lift at 700ft maybe its the difference in where i tapped the pump compared to where you tapped?i'm a inch in frt of the wearring boss, at 9 oclock, almost fully behind the inducer.
    JMO, if you were overcharging at 700ft you would know it. I think changing the droop would be worth a try. Maybe look into the Place HPH Droop.

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