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need timing help

  1. #1
    Broke Member monstertahiti78's Avatar
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    Default need timing help

    So I've finally got the motor rebuilt...for the 2nd time and back in the boat. It runs strong...when it starts. I cant quite get the timing dialed in but then again I have no idea what I'm doing. I'm hoping that someone can give me something to go off of. I have a pretty stock 454. Heads and pistons are stock with a mild Lunati cam, tunnel ram, 2 Edelbrock 750s and water injected headers. Any help would be much appreciated. Its been upwards of 106 in Sacramento and I need to get this thing on the water.

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    Quote Originally Posted by monstertahiti78 View Post
    So I've finally got the motor rebuilt...for the 2nd time and back in the boat. It runs strong...when it starts. I cant quite get the timing dialed in but then again I have no idea what I'm doing. I'm hoping that someone can give me something to go off of. I have a pretty stock 454. Heads and pistons are stock with a mild Lunati cam, tunnel ram, 2 Edelbrock 750s and water injected headers. Any help would be much appreciated. Its been upwards of 106 in Sacramento and I need to get this thing on the water.
    Have your Rebuilder time it for you..you paid for it....I saw that pile at Johns shop..and Jeff won't touch it...

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    Senior Member jetboatperformance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by monstertahiti78 View Post
    So I've finally got the motor rebuilt...for the 2nd time and back in the boat. It runs strong...when it starts. I cant quite get the timing dialed in but then again I have no idea what I'm doing. I'm hoping that someone can give me something to go off of. I have a pretty stock 454. Heads and pistons are stock with a mild Lunati cam, tunnel ram, 2 Edelbrock 750s and water injected headers. Any help would be much appreciated. Its been upwards of 106 in Sacramento and I need to get this thing on the water.
    Considering all the info you provided , what you didn't give up is what distributor and ignition system you have ? and what makes you sure that timing is the issue ? Tom

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    Broke Member monstertahiti78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gone Green View Post
    Have your Rebuilder time it for you..you paid for it....I saw that pile at Johns shop..and Jeff won't touch it...
    hahaha. Yeah this is a first time thing for me and it is a pile. Its coming along though. Aside from the motor I had to replace floors and carpet and rebuild seats. Stringers will come next season. I work at a body shop so I have big plans for it but I also have empty pockets. This is actually the rebuild after I halfway rebuilt it when John had it. John told me I had a flat cam so I pulled it apart, replaced the cam, lifters, crank and bearings. Through all the stress of being a giant mess for my first time I conveniently forgot to or didn't properly torque ONE rod bolt....so the day I finally finished rebuilding it I threw a rod. By far the most frustrating and educational day of my life. Fast forward 3 months and I now have a fresh used motor. Pretty much everything is new except for the pistons and rods. And I made sure as hell that I tightened ever bolt and took my time...and didn't drink a bunch of beer while wrenching. So all in all I am the builder and I wish I could say that someone paid me for it.

  7. #5
    Broke Member monstertahiti78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetboatperformance View Post
    Considering all the info you provided , what you didn't give up is what distributor and ignition system you have ? and what makes you sure that timing is the issue ? Tom
    Duh...sorry about that. kind of an important piece of info. I replaced the mallory with a MSD dizzy and coil. Plugs are all new but not sure if they are gapped correctly. I couldnt find the exact specs. Help on that would be great also. And I just replaced the needle and seats on both carbs and cleaned the shit out of them also.

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    Senior Member jetboatperformance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by monstertahiti78 View Post
    Duh...sorry about that. kind of an important piece of info. I replaced the mallory with a MSD dizzy and coil. Plugs are all new but not sure if they are gapped correctly. I couldnt find the exact specs. Help on that would be great also. And I just replaced the needle and seats on both carbs and cleaned the shit out of them also.
    What springs and what bushing ? (in the distributor) or do you need help with that? also whats the compression ratio of this hot rod and pump gas ?

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    Some guy obnoxious001's Avatar
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    PM sent with phone number,, call and I will explain briefly

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    Senior Member GT Jets's Avatar
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    Where are you going boating?

    Do you have a timing light? Does it have the advance dial feature? Does your balancer have a timing tape?

    This should be fairly straight forward, but something you want to get right straight out of the box.

    If you are timing it on the trailer, you will need to mark the balancer so you have a timing mark at around 34*BTDC, you can use White Out if you wish, I normally use a yellow paint pen, the best way is a timing tape. You should really verify that ")" is really top dead center, you can do this with a wooden pencil inserted into the number one hole and "feel" for the piston travel to "stop" and note the position of the "0" on the balancer.

    Once you have the boat ready to run, set up your timing light on number 1 ignition wire and rev the motor to about 2500 rpm and quickly but accurately adjust the timing to 32* BTDC, this will get you silly close.. May be able to use more timing, but 32* is pretty safe, enough to get a feel for what's going on anyway.

    The way I index the balancer is to use a cloth tape measure and measure the circumference of the balancer, once you have that, it's pretty easy to determine crankshaft degrees in inches.

    As an example, if the circumference was 16" the measurement for figuring degrees would be 22.5*per inch (divide the circumference into 360, or 360/circumference)...

    Hope this helps...

    Good luck, I am not too far from you depending on where your getting her wet...
    GT


    Quote Originally Posted by Quickjet View Post
    Put a 300 on the back of it, Flywheel it and a nosecone. $15,000 later you'll have a 65 mph pile of shit......

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    Broke Member monstertahiti78's Avatar
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    Not sure what the compression ratio is. Or the springs and bushings for that matter. The springs and bushings are the ones that came in the distributor out of the box. If I recall correctly the size was listed in the install manual. I can get the sizes tomorrow morning

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    Platinum Member BigSteve's Avatar
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    One of the first things I do after the pistons are in is to top stop the piston and confirm where TDC is in relation to the damper and pointer in mock up

    Then I degree the cam as per the card specs

    After knowing where TDC is I can set my dizzy timing from a true ref point

    Your dizzy is a unknown at this point,

    I have a sun distributor machine to measure the advance curve and confirm @ what RPM full timing occurs that lets me know where the initial timing should be set and what the max will be.

    Many full race engines lock out the timing curve all together

    I would start at 34 deg total timing, you may be able to add a degree or two more

    I find the dyno the best way to find the exact total timing needed

  13. #11
    Broke Member monstertahiti78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by obnoxious001 View Post
    PM sent with phone number,, call and I will explain briefly
    Im just getting off work but I will be working on this guy tomorrow so I will give you a call then. Thanks

  14. #12
    Broke Member monstertahiti78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GT Jets View Post
    Where are you going boating?

    Do you have a timing light? Does it have the advance dial feature? Does your balancer have a timing tape?

    This should be fairly straight forward, but something you want to get right straight out of the box.

    If you are timing it on the trailer, you will need to mark the balancer so you have a timing mark at around 34*BTDC, you can use White Out if you wish, I normally use a yellow paint pen, the best way is a timing tape. You should really verify that ")" is really top dead center, you can do this with a wooden pencil inserted into the number one hole and "feel" for the piston travel to "stop" and note the position of the "0" on the balancer.

    Once you have the boat ready to run, set up your timing light on number 1 ignition wire and rev the motor to about 2500 rpm and quickly but accurately adjust the timing to 32* BTDC, this will get you silly close.. May be able to use more timing, but 32* is pretty safe, enough to get a feel for what's going on anyway.

    The way I index the balancer is to use a cloth tape measure and measure the circumference of the balancer, once you have that, it's pretty easy to determine crankshaft degrees in inches.

    As an example, if the circumference was 16" the measurement for figuring degrees would be 22.5*per inch (divide the circumference into 360, or 360/circumference)...

    Hope this helps...

    Good luck, I am not too far from you depending on where your getting her wet...
    I usually boat at Folsom but Im sure I will hit the river with her and CFW from time to time. I borrowed a timing light from a neighbor but I have not tried to use it yet and I dont know if it has an advanced timing feature. Ill take a look tomorrow. The balancer does not have a timing tape on it. Is that something I can buy at the local auto store? I know that I have alot of unknowns but I was smart enough this time around to check where TDC was on #1 before I bolted the heads on. And I even marked it on the balancer. Im patting myself on the back for doing that now that I know the importance.

  15. #13
    Broke Member monstertahiti78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigSteve View Post
    One of the first things I do after the pistons are in is to top stop the piston and confirm where TDC is in relation to the damper and pointer in mock up

    Then I degree the cam as per the card specs

    After knowing where TDC is I can set my dizzy timing from a true ref point

    Your dizzy is a unknown at this point,

    I have a sun distributor machine to measure the advance curve and confirm @ what RPM full timing occurs that lets me know where the initial timing should be set and what the max will be.

    Many full race engines lock out the timing curve all together

    I would start at 34 deg total timing, you may be able to add a degree or two more

    I find the dyno the best way to find the exact total timing needed
    I wish I had some $ left over to put this thing on a dyno.

  16. #14
    Broke Member monstertahiti78's Avatar
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    What springs and what bushing ? (in the distributor) or do you need help with that? also whats the compression ratio of this hot rod and pump gas ?[/QUOTE]

    Just checked out the instructions and it looks like the dizzy currently has 2 heavy silver advance springs and a blue 21* bushing installed.

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