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30K views 339 replies 58 participants last post by  HawaiianJet 
#1 ·
Well, I took the boat out tonight, and it was running good and hard. I could finally put my foot into it without it making any funky sounds. But, I think I might have ran it just a bit too hard.:):)punch Final pass, started to hear a clanking sound, said uh oh, better put it on the trailer.:)bulb Got it back to the house, pulled the passenger valve cover and here's what I found, yummy.:)st And the #8 intake rocker came off, and the push rod was sticking way out of the hole, and it won't go back down to where it normally sits, so I'm afraid for the worst. I'm going to pull the intake tomorrow and see what's up. But, looks like my season might be over now.:mad: Here's some pics.

Passenger side.




Drivers side.


:)hand
 
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#160 ·
hey man , first the valves are probably not anything to worry about , they are just different because the got changed out on a rebuild , i would think the water in the block is a bad deal you need to make sure you get ====ALL=== of the water out of that thing , and at this point that means your going to have to tear it all the way down , or else if you try to fire it next year, it will smoke all the bearings, and maybe break the rings, kill the cam , and who knows what else, when you tear it apart , use break cleaner to clean all parts and oil journals , to make sure the moisture is all gone good luck man
 
#163 · (Edited)
Yeah, that's the plan. I just don't have a cherry picker or engine stand yet. So this is as far as I can go for right now. The plan is a complete rebuild, and I'm probably gonna make it a 496 cid, aluminum heads (those iron fuckers are heavy :))eek:))) (and not procomp, I don't care what anybody has to say about them, I've had my own experiences with procomp, and none of them good), forged pistons and crank, H-beam rods, full roller, custom ground cam, single plane intake, you get the picture. All assembled by a real engine shop (not me), I've fucked up enough stuff already.;) But this is years down the road, until I can get enough money saved up to do the build the way I want it, without having to sacrifice or skimp on anything. So I will be boatless for quite a while.:( But the wait will be worth it.:)

Thanks.:)

Fixed your sig for ya.
Fuck You!!!!!!:|err :D
 
#168 ·
Are the pistons and valves supposed to be that black after the little bit of time that I actually ran the engine?

Thanks.:)
 
#169 ·
Theres fire in them there cylinders. So yup, they get black pretty quick. Why don't you freshen this one back up and use the boat some more? Your gonna go from a 500 dollar boat to a 10,000 engine in what hull? Fix it and use the piss out of it. You could probably smoke through that engine for a g and have it stay together for a long long time. You've already come so far with your current build. Use it for your learning curve and go up from there.

If you grab a book entitled, "how to re-build your big block chevy" It will answer all of your questions about whats right, whats wrong, and all the needed clearances and torque specifications. My first engine build was a briggs for my go cart when I was 14. I got a small engine book and used it and guess what, it came out alright. I learned from that and progressed from there. My current engine build will be my first BBC, but with the information I have in hand I am sure everything will come out fine.

You got the brains for it, I am positive with the right information you can build it yourself. No sense in paying someone big $$ for something you can do yourself.

~Briab
 
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#172 · (Edited)
hey, i read that link..

PRECAUTION: If you have an older high mileage engine which the lifters bleed off pressure (drain the oil out of the lifter body), you can improperly adjust your valves. You need oil in the hydraulic lifter to be able to get an accurate setting. If you repeatedly adjust the valves by this procedure and they are still not correct, you probably have lifters bleeding off during adjustment. You have two options: Replace the Lifters -= or =- adjust the valves using the "HOT" running method described below.



anti pump up lifters can do the same thing.... bleed down..

also. putting the cam on full lift to adjust opposite cylinder ?
who came up with that ?
put it on the heal and adjust that cylinder.

if you can find an old chevrolet/fisher service manual...
like for an SS 396 or SS 350 with solids..
they have a page in there that tells you exactly which valves to adjust at tdc and bdc.
i have one but not in front of me..
and to memorize it ... well someone on her probably does know it off the top of their head....
get a good bible.. keep it handy.
invaluable tool.

engine hot...set em till the pushrod just barley rotates.. then 1/8 - 1/4 turn.

a comp extreme is a decent cam off the shelf hassle free deal for not a lot of money.

jmo
Like this one?
Comp Cam

Thanks, I must have missed that one. I do not want to do it while the engine is running, especially since I don't even have them installed at all.

I noticed that if I collapsed the spring and let it set, the spring would slowly start coming back up, is that what that is describing?

Thanks again.:)

Yeah, I'll pass on the eBay stuff. I'm not gonna buy on eBay just to save $20 bucks, and then find out that it was a factory defect, and is worse than the one I currently have. It's just not worth the risk, IMO, and it's one of the reasons I'm in the situation that I'm in.

Thanks.:)
 
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#175 · (Edited)
Don't you have an Extra set of Valve covers laying around from ebay that were no good?

Take those cut the tops of them put them on, run it till it gets hot then Lash the Valves.

I would exhaust all my options before looking at new stuff. Your on a budget but you mind set is play with it a lil bit and if I cant figure it out ill buy new shit. You MAY need new lifters but ARE YOU SURE you need new lifters cam etc?

No offense just trying to help.

Search youtube for BoxWrench
 
#177 · (Edited)
Alright, I know nobody likes messing with me anymore, but I need a little bit more information. I've got a lot of questions swirling through my head right now. I'm also gonna go get a BBC book today. Are the lifters really what's causing the problems I'm experiencing with the valves not being able to be adjusted, and the springs not traveling the correct distance. Or is that something to do with the engine not being hot? When I drained the oil, would the oil have drained out of the lifters? I have cranked the engine over a few times since draining the oil. Was that bad? How can I tell if the cam and lifters are bad, what should I look for?

Is it safe to say that I can put the heads back on? Now that I've got the water out of the cylinders, and checked to see that my valves and pistons are alright. Can I use the old head bolts? Do I need to get some type of thread sealant or something? They had some white goop on them when I pulled them out. What's the sequence to follow to get them properly clamped down and at the correct torque? The torque is 75 ft-lbs for the long bolts and 65 ft-lbs for the short bolts, correct?

Now if I do need to get the cam, will the engine need to come out of the boat to install the new cam shaft? What will the idle be like on that cam I posted? 1600 seems kinda high to me, but I don't know squat about this stuff?

Oh and I would not be installing the cam shaft. I've got a buddy who is an engine builder and owns a machine shop, and I'm going to see if I can haul it up to his shop, and see if he'll do it for me, but he will charge me for it.

Thanks.:)

Don't you have an Extra set of Valve covers laying around from ebay that were no good?

Take those cut the tops of them put them on, run it till it gets hot then Lash the Valves.

I would exhaust all my options before looking at new stuff. Your on a budget but you mind set is play with it a lil bit and if I cant figure it out ill buy new shit. You MAY need new lifters but ARE YOU SURE you need new lifters cam etc?

No offense just trying to help.

Search youtube for BoxWrench
No, I sold those to SKOM, and he was able to make them work on his engine. These are the only valve covers I've got right now.

Strange, with nearly 2800 posts, with questions, answers, and advice, one cannot use the information provided. Many people have given input to help solve HJ's delemas. One can only sit back and watch someone self destruct, by not listening to information given, or by making a guess how it should be. Maybe HJ it's time to hang it up, find another hobby. There is a such a thing as low buck, but half ass don't cut it, in the boating world. If you don't take a step back and look at your situation, and where your headed, it's going to really cost you some coin to fix.
Too many posts to go back through, it's easier to just ask again.:)hand
 
#178 ·
If you have an oil pump primer on a drill, you dont have to set the Lash Hot / Running. Have someone run the drill and roll the motor over a few times. Get all the lifters pumped up real well so you can see oil comming out of every pushrod.

Then set your first valve ... run the drill and rotate crankshaft to your next setting ... set that valve ... run the drill ... etc.

If your gonna do it hot, make sure the instant it fires, you get it reved up to about 3000 RPMs and basically leave it there for 30 minutes non stop. Varying the RPMS between 2200 and 3000 every few minutes.

Use Rotella 10-40 with GM EOS (If you can find it) for that cam break in.

Leave that oil in it for a good 10 Hours of Run Time.

The most critical time of that camshafts life is the first 30 minutes. When I got my Cobra a couple months ago, the guys that were "working" on it never got it to run properly after putting in a new cam. (Didnt help that they had the cam advanced 6 degrees) It never got that 30 minutes at 3000. Cam was wiped out in 2 Hours including lifters that had no bottoms with springs hanging out.
 
#179 ·
Alright, just got back from checking the lifters. I didn't see any excessive wear on the wear surfaces of the cam or lifters. But should I be able to push the plunger down in the lifter with my finger? A couple were stiff, but the rest were soft and very easy to push down.

Thanks.:)
 
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#181 · (Edited)
dude.. rule no#..
don't pay anyone for something you can do yourself..unless you are stuck in tonapagh.. az...then use their tools..

re-use headbolts.... in your set up.
yes.
use thread sealant on the threads.
permatex #2 or silicone.1211 three bond is best.

head
start from the center ...center bolt.. bottom bolt ,left bottom..left top.... etc..work clockwise on bolt at a time..in a circle all the way around.
get the bible... if your not sure.

check the cam lobes for pitting.

checking the lifters.

get a coffee can put some oil in it.
put lifter in the can of oil.. use pushrod to pump up lifter.
all the cheese will squirt out of it.
it is a hydrolic part..should feel "some" pressure when it pumps up.
look for pitting on face.
one at a time.. dont mix them up.

you have flat top high silicone pistons..
short block should live for 1000 hrs.... with due care.

what is the deal with the shields on the valve springs ?

if changing cams...
you might want to step up the springs.
since they are of unknown origin.
truck heads.. truck springs.. = LOW RPM ..low lift = low pressure.




one thing is for sure.
you will know that boat inside and out when it is dialed in..
who cares if it only goes 50-55....
having FUN is key.

two weekends ago.. a couple young guys had a similiar jet.. out in the ocean...3ft rollers...
kind of crazy... but they were whoopin it up...maybe going 45..louder than most.
sounded like a fountain going 65.
looked like they were having a great time..
about 15 minute later... the olds coughed.
coppers towed them in..

these guy were beeming on the ramp.
i don't think they had that much fun ever.
it didnt matter to them they killed a historic antique engine.LOL !
FUN IS THE GOAL
anyone can penis race


and there is no such thing as a stupid question....

only dummies don't ask when they don't know.
I don't know, they came installed, so I left em' on. I've never really looked into removing them, so I don't know exactly how to do it. What's the advantage of removing them? Why are they on there in the first place?

Thanks for all the help.:)



Alright, I've got some questions after examining the cylinders and pics that I took. On the first picture, look at the #4 cylinder wall. Does that look like a scrapped up cylinder? There are a couple more cylinders with similar markings.



Also I measured the cylinder bores and they checked in at around 4.312" so that is 0.002" overbore. What should that be for a marine build? If I'm remembering correctly, I think that it is supposed to be more than that for a marine engine, but I'm not sure how much larger (can't remember). So do I need to have it honed a bit?

And below I have some pics of the cam (left to right = back to front), again I'm not really sure what I'm supposed to be looking for, they look pitted to me, but it is very small pitting, and I'm not sure if that is normal or not.

Thanks.:)
 

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#182 ·
Since you are just getting into this whole hot rod thing I think I should share a very valuable lesson I was taught when I built my first mini bike. My uncle who races boats looked at me and asked. "Are you sure you want to get into wrenching?" To which I replied "HELL YEAH!" He shook his head and pointed to his sign that sits in the back of his shop. He said read it out loud and remember it Brian.

The sign read, "If it rolls, floats, or fucks, its cheaper to rent." Unfortunately, I didn't listen, and since that day have spent too much money on boats, cars, and women. I have learned to be patient with it because once it is done, how ever many years it takes, it will be worth it in the end.

My boat hasn't been in the water for 3 years now, but I am taking my time and when It is done it will be bitchen.

~Brian
 
#183 ·
Well, engine is going back together smoothly. The heads and valve train are back on. Tomorrow I'm gonna go get an oil pump primmer and pump up the lifters, and get the oil everywhere. I pumped all the junk (milkshake) out of them tonight and pumped em' full of fresh oil, but they still didn't adjust right, but I'll get it tomorrow when it's not dark out.:)

Thanks guys.:)
 
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#185 ·
looks like a tight ring end gap ?
tight skirt clearance ?
or maybe run without water and got hot?
that would be considered a seizure if it was a 2 stroke.



.004 inch of gap per inch of bore.

if the bore was tight, that could be why it wasn't pulling alot of rpm.
i would pull it apart, i bet the skirts are hurt.

4.250 is std...
that is .062 over
bore


maybe do a leak down since you have the heads back on.
spin it over and check the compression.
if it is within 15-20 lbs , for what you are doing ,you can squeek by and use it a few more times before you regroup and tear it down to freshin it up. some might argue.but when you don't have a pile of money and want to get on the water....you would be suprised at what will run.
jmo.


[quote=HawaiianJet;372888]Alright, I've got some questions after examining the cylinders and pics that I took. On the first picture, look at the #4 cylinder wall. Does that look like a scrapped up cylinder? There are a couple more cylinders with similar markings.







Also I measured the cylinder bores and they checked in at around 4.312" so that is 0.002" overbore. What should that be for a marine build? If I'm remembering correctly, I think that it is supposed to be more than that for a marine engine, but I'm not sure how much larger (can't remember). So do I need to have it honed a bit?

And below I have some pics of the cam (left to right = back to front), again I'm not really sure what I'm supposed to be looking for, they look pitted to me, but it is very small pitting, and I'm not sure if that is normal or not.

Thanks.:)
[/quote]

Alright, I get a compression tester later on today. What's a leak down test? What do I need to do that?

Thanks.:)
 
#188 ·
Compression check results.

Well I think I found another problem in the long list of problems that keeps coming up.

Here's the results. I don't have a clue what the numbers are supposed to be, but I think I'm just supposed to be looking for consistency from cylinder to cylinder.

#1 - 37 psi ----- #2 - 37 psi
#3 - 37 psi ----- #4 - 17 psi
#5 - 37 psi ----- #6 - 37 psi
#7 - 37 psi ----- #8 - 43 psi


**+/- 2 psi**

Thanks.:)
 
#189 ·
Well I think I found another problem in the long list of problems that keeps coming up.

Here's the results. I don't have a clue what the numbers are supposed to be, but I think I'm just supposed to be looking for consistency from cylinder to cylinder.

#1 - 37 psi ----- #2 - 37 psi
#3 - 37 psi ----- #4 - 17 psi
#5 - 37 psi ----- #6 - 37 psi
#7 - 37 psi ----- #8 - 43 psi

**+/- 2 psi**

Thanks.:)
Im no professional, but those numbers look REAL LOW.
 
#192 ·
Did you do a cranking compression test or a leak down test ?

When you do a cranking compression test(which I don't think you did) tie wire your carb to wide open and pull all of the plugs out, crank it over maybe 6-8 times or until the guage stops climbing. If it stops climbing in 5 cranks you can stop. I wouldn't worry about cranking it over more than 8 times.

And I'm talking about cranking it over with the starter :p

Don't crank it over with a wrench..... that's what your numbers look like if that's not a leak down test :)bulb

Sleeper CP :D
 
#193 · (Edited)
This might sound like a silly question. But does the motor have to be completely assembled, and being cranked by the starter? I don't have the intake or the valve covers on, and the dipstick isn't even in the oil pan.:)sphss And I was cranking it over by hand.

This is my first time doing this, and I've never seen it done, so I have no idea if I'm doing something wrong. But I thought they looked kinda low too. I saw where the needle was and just went, "fuuuuuck".



I don't know what a leak down test is, so I have no idea what I did.:)sphss

I guess this thread keeps living up to it's name, "Oops!!!"
 
#196 ·
Yes, I cranked it over about 5 times per cylinder, it basically stopped by the 3rd crank on all the cylinders, but I kept going just to be sure. But I was cranking it by hand (with a socket on the balancer bolt) and I don't think the valves are adjusted right. I went all over town today looking for a oil pump primer, but nobody had one in stock, but NAPA said they could get me one by tomorrow morning, so I should be able to get those adjusted tomorrow.:)
 
#198 ·
Alright, what's the best engine building book out there? (that's not like $100):)sphss
 
#206 ·
On a unit like yours the easiest way to adjust the valves ( for start up ) is roll your motor over till one valve is all the way down - then on that same cylinder go to the other valve and take it to zero lash ( you tighten the tip of the rocker to the pushrod till you barley feel resistance ) This would be a very safe and effective way for you to get your boat running ( pending all the problems are worked out ) I usually do this plus a 1/8 of a turn on my flat hydr. cams - I like to run my valves on the looser side of the clearneces as i believe they run better on the top end . My .002 cents - take it for what its worth

You are doing the right thing by working on it yourself , but everyone needs some guidence and if you took a class or hung out at a garage and watched , i believe it would do you wonders !
 
#207 ·
:))THumbsUp Thanks.:)

That's how I used to do it, and was always told to do it. But then I was told I should do some research and find out how to do it properly, so I did after many weeks of ignoring that advice. Well, that method hasn't worked once yet, so I guess that the research made my life more difficult, and I'll go back to how I used to do it.:)sphss
 
#209 · (Edited)
Until your valves are adj. the compresson and leak down will not be accurate!

Now on the valve train lots of good advice here! Lets think in laymans terms! This motor was bought off EBAY? Fresh rebuild? Probley stock cam grind! Stock valve springs! 4600 RPM for a continuous runs!!!!!! Valve springs are stock and I would guess old not replaced when rebuilt! A 427 Tall deck motor rarely if ever saw 4000 RPM in a truck!! So my point is that the valve train needs some upgrading! Most trucks had a redline of around 4500 RPM and the tach would only go to 5000 RPM! Spinning that motor at that RPM would or could cause nuts to back off due to weak springs, old nuts(whitch I think you replaced)! Weak V- springs could be the culprit or some of it! You are pushing this motor to some of its limits! JMO and food for thought! WT:)devil

Also for a cheaper cam and lifter set up check at your local parts store for can upgrades! they do offer perf. cams and kits through there rebuilder suppliers! Don't brake the bank on this motor!
 
#213 · (Edited)
Until your valves are adj. the compresson and leak down will not be accurate!

Now on the valve train lots of good advice here! Lets think in laymans terms! This motor was bought off EBAY? Fresh rebuild? Probley stock cam grind! Stock valve springs! 4600 RPM for a continuous runs!!!!!! Valve springs are stock and I would guess old not replaced when rebuilt! A 427 Tall deck motor rarely if ever saw 4000 RPM in a truck!! So my point is that the valve train needs some upgrading! Most trucks had a redline of around 4500 RPM and the tach would only go to 5000 RPM! Spinning that motor at that RPM would or could cause nuts to back off due to weak springs, old nuts(whitch I think you replaced)! Weak V- springs could be the culprit or some of it! You are pushing this motor to some of its limits! JMO and food for thought! WT:)devil
I agree completely!!!;) I've experience the rocker nut thing like 4 times now, and I finally put polylocks on it.:)sphss

This engine was not my pick by any means, it's a complicated situation, and I'm kicking my ass for it now. Back in the early days of the build, when my partner was more of a partner. His dad used to own a jet boat (big boat, like 21') and he kept on blowing up 454's in that boat, so he stuck a 427 truck block in the boat and was never able to blow it up. So he wanted to get that same reliability for our boat, so he found a 427 on eBay and bought it. And now here I am, trying my best to keep this bitch together without pumping a lot of money into it. I wanted a 454, or larger, but for now I'm stuck with this old tank.

And can I please have a leak down explained to me. What is it, first off?

Thanks.:)
 
#212 ·
Due to lifter bleed down, you really can't go back thru them and adjust again. So try this HJ remove all push rods, prime the moter, and install the push rod, adjust the lash one at a time. this way you can see what your doing as far as compressing the plunger in the lifter. One at a time till your done, you know it will be right then.
 
#220 ·
Ok, this has been coming up a lot lately, and I guess I really don't understand why. What's wrong with me having a bunch of posts???:)Unsure If you don't fucking care don't fucking read!!!!!!!!!!!:|err I don't read 2/3 of the threads on page 1 of the Jet Boat section cause they are of little interest to me. About 75% of my posts are contained within my own threads, which often grow very large because they cover many subjects, so I'm not starting a new thread for every question that I have. The last few times I've tried to do my own internet research on engine related shit , I've fucked something up because that information was shit. The information on this site has proved more reliable than what I find via a Google search, so I am more comfortable asking here than throwing dice on Google.

:)hand
 
#221 · (Edited)
Ok, this has been coming up a lot lately, and I guess I really don't understand why. What's wrong with me having a bunch of posts???:)Unsure If you don't fucking care don't fucking read!!!!!!!!!!!:|err I don't read 2/3 of the threads on page 1 of the Jet Boat section cause they are of little interest to me. About 75% of my posts are contained within my own threads, which often grow very large because they cover many subjects, so I'm not starting a new thread for every question that I have. The last few times I've tried to do my own internet research on engine related shit , I've fucked something up because that information was shit. The information on this site has proved more reliable than what I find via a Google search, so I am more comfortable asking here than throwing dice on Google.

:)hand
Aw crap, grab a fresh diaper and relax lil buddy :D
 
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#229 ·
Yeah, I ran out of time tonight to get the rest of it put together. Just gotta put the electronics and headers back on, then I can do a cranking compression test.:)

No nitrous planned any time soon for this thing. It doesn't want to stay together, just shooting gasoline into the cylinders. I can't even imagine what nitrous would do to this thing.:)st

Thanks ptz.:)
 
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