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BS Number?

  1. #1
    Crazy Eights Brad @ SCJB's Avatar
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    Default BS Number?

    Whats your take on this?

    I have a '78 Liberty...normal layup...some say its light, but its heavy to me.

    Pump has nothing special done to it...

    -basic JBP rebuilt 12JG with a standard AT A Impeller
    -no loader ...just a finger grate with the angle bar in it
    -no shoe or ride plate

    First heat at ming this last weekend racing circles....the boat road like crap...it had a agressor droop and not much up nozzle from the diverter......almost flipped the thing head over heels when i hit a roller. it launched straight up like a kite.

    Jeremy brought his magistical home brewed straight snoot off his cole so we slapped it on there...no wedges...and a little bit of down nozzle (not sure of the pin angle)...boat ran 85.5mph

    for the next few heats we left it alone and it continued to run a consistant number of 83 to 85 mph

    the last heat on sunday Jeremy put in a down wedge (not sure how much, maybe he will chime in after hes done puttin out cactus fies)
    then dropped the diverter another notch.

    boat ran 90.0 mph after those minor changes.



    so whats your take....is it possible to achive 90 in this boat with no real loader, no shoe/rideplate ? the water wasnt exactly drag conditions either. the pump did suck air/unload a few times.

    about the motor: i dont know much about it other then its a 496. it was a motor lent to me so i could finish out the season points. This motor came out of a rogers (the 410) and driving that, i never even broke 80 in that boat with that same motor. yes, water and air conditions were different in all situations.

    I am kinda stumped...whats your take? GPS glitch? or this boat has some potential with some setup changes (shoe, rideplate, and loader)

    since it was a borrowed motor and i only hit that GPS speed on the last heat, theres no real way to go verify its a consistant number that can be hit.

    I have a new motor thats in the works that should be in the same guestimated HP range as that 496, so maybe time will tell ...ill have to come join you NJBA boys early next season to get some true numbers.
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  3. #2
    JRPM/e-PerformanceMarine Squirtin Thunder's Avatar
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    Brad it is very possible, you had a very good engine and those boats do haul ass. Now all the stars were in alignment and everything else was perfect as well. Good job at the races. Just don't shoot for the stars again !

    BTW - I thought a few years ago Joey tested the 410 and radared it at 91mph or something like that.
    Last edited by Squirtin Thunder; 09-30-2008 at 11:27 PM.
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    Senior Member GT Jets's Avatar
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    Being as you opened the door, the last run out the boat seemed to "air out" more so than previously, seemed odd, does your GPS log the time at the "max MPH"? If not you did spin the boat right?, could have picked up the erroneous number during the balet moves I am not real familiar with how the Garmins indicate speed, some of the GPS units I am familiar with use five SATS (Magellan). I think Garmin uses three, but guessing.

    The boat did not seem to be that fast, but who knows, I have certainly seen more done with less...But its rare.

    Had a blast BTW, thanks for the efforts and "getting it together" for the fans, I'm sure I'm not alone in saying it was overall a fun weekend with the exception of the major loss to the racing community, (Stevie) still can't believe that.

    I would take it to the water so I could sleep (bring two GPS units)

    GT
    Last edited by GT Jets; 09-30-2008 at 11:22 PM.

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  6. #4
    Crazy Eights Brad @ SCJB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GT Jets View Post
    Being as you opened the door, the last run out the boat seemed to "air out" more so than previously, seemed odd, does your GPS log the time at the "max MPH"? If not you did spin the boat right?, could have picked up the erroneous number during the balet moves I am not real familiar with how the Garmins indicate speed, some of the GPS units I am familiar with use five SATS (Magellan). I think Garmin uses three, but guessing.

    The boat did not seem to be that fast, but who knows, I have certainly seen more done with less...But its rare.

    Had a blast BTW, thanks for the efforts and "getting it together" for the fans, I'm sure I'm not alone in saying it was overall a fun weekend with the exeption of the major loss to the racing community, (Stevie) still can't believe that.

    I would take it to the water so I could sleep (bring two GPS units)

    GT
    no, the time i spun out was the first heat of sunday....when i hit 90, it was the last heat on sunday when i broke the throttle cable going into the first turn on the 2nd lap. the changes were made because of the spin out.

    the boat was indeed running fast the whole weekend...most of the heats i was starting on the outside lane and was beating everyone to the turn, but would lose position as i was outside going into the first turn and i had yet to turn it hard at those speeds....so this weekend was mostly a good lesson on that boat compaired to the rogers. The rogers is a bit more forgiving at speed. the liberty bit me pretty good. still kinda stumped even after reviewing the video of where i went wrong.

    anyways....when the trottle cable broke....amazingly at those high speeds, the boat held its line and went straight. I have had it hook on me before on an unexpected shutdown.

  7. #5
    Senior Member GT Jets's Avatar
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    Let me just say you had better go borrow that snoot from Jeremy and have that thing cloned...

    I would not be surprized about the 90 if had not only run 85 before, seems unreal.

    I have in the past seen abnormally high gains from very small seemingly insignifigant changes, which is why my favorite phrase is "single baby steps".

    Maybe it's just that the spin scared the crap out of you so you were lighter

    I'll sleep on it and come up with some stupid irrelivent theory tomorrow

    GT

  8. #6
    Senior Member HBjet's Avatar
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    Do you have a turn fin in the center of the hull?

    When you say the boat seems to be a normal hull weight, but others say it is light, how much does it weigh?

    Not sure on circle racing setups, but my old Eliminator Liberty sure liked the rideplate, and back cut shoe. You could see 90 in your boat if the conditions were right. There is really nothing in the boat verses a standard river/lake setup.

    What RPM's were you turning?

    As for the choppy conditions, Liberty's love the chop and run real fast in it. I miss that the most from my old boat, nothing like hauling ass over some decent chop and really freeing up the boat. If you are unloading, then you need to get a decent loader in that boat. Not the straight finger deal.

    Just my thoughts. I am sure MikeF can relate to your boat better then mine, his is really light, and moves with little power compared to some.

  9. #7
    cj812 ralph brunt's Avatar
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    for what its worth at long beach i rant 2 gps's one like yours and another, the one like yours said 94 while the other said 88. the boat always runs 88 so the 94 was a gift from the gods

  10. #8
    B1 Racing cs19's Avatar
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    most likely bs but it could be a freak. run it through the traps in october in river racer.
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  11. #9
    Senior Member GT Jets's Avatar
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    Just take it to a local lake with a 35 MPH speed limit and blow past the Ranger, he/she will be more than happy to let you know how fast it is

  12. #10
    I'm No Expert Shaun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GT Jets View Post
    Just take it to a local lake with a 35 MPH speed limit and blow past the Ranger, he/she will be more than happy to let you know how fast it is
    lol.

  13. #11
    Spiral out MikeF's Avatar
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    Typically when you take a blue oval out and put a bowtie in.....you always gain something.

  14. #12
    Senior Member Futs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeF View Post
    Typically when you take a blue oval out and put a bowtie in.....you always gain something.
    Thats what i was thinking.

  15. #13
    Spiral out MikeF's Avatar
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    What rpm were you turning w/ the ford? W/ the Chevy?

    Everytime you change the thrust angle in every little way you're changing the center of gravity that the boat is going to be running with. You lower the nozzle and you lower the CG lower in the hull. You raise the nozzle and you raise the position of the CG.

    When I bought mine the boat it had a normal looking Berk jet w/a little up wedge and a race nozzle. It wanted to slide when I turned left (cause of the intake skegs)(and the thrust position)......and yes I did eventually spin it.....by not getting into the throttle.

    Eventually, I placed a AT droop (w/ the race nozzle) on it and it changed the way the boat reacted to a turn. It really no longer slid as much cause it lowered the thrust line lower and further back in the hull (and might be draggin a bit?). So for me, it's a little easier to drive.

    I have experienced the same "kiteing" like you did going over a roller and it did grab my attention (because of the lower thrust line pushing the bow up).....and when losing the throttle has turned pretty hard too.....remember it is a Vbottom boat.

    Every Liberty hull I've ever seen runs pretty flat on top of the water.

    The guy I bought the boat from said.......Don't change/move anything!

    Seems like it liked the change.....and it's a good place to start from at your next competition......the inside lane that is!

  16. #14
    Crazy Eights Brad @ SCJB's Avatar
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    the comparison of the blue oval to this bowtie is no match...the ford ran 4800 at the best of 67mph and and this one was hitting maybe 5700 to 5800....not sure cuz the moon tach i have isnt very good to get specific tach readings off. (too vauge of markings)

    not sure on the exact weight....maybe i can get it weighed after i get the motor pulled. when i flipped it, it seemed much heavier then my 18' '71 rogers...but i know thats like compairing apples to oranges.

    ralph - thanks for that info about your GPS readings at long beach...i think its safe to say its a fluke number now. ill be sure to run a couple of different gps's.....cuz that right there is proof the gps rule in nostalgia really isnt worth a shit. seems like we need to figure out a better way to govern that class, but i have no other ideas how we would do that.


    my next motor wont be ready to run the drags at ming in october ....so maybe the first even next year in march.

    thanks for everyone's input.

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