More Control of the Boats Launching
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More Control of the Boats Launching

  1. #1
    149 BGJ-Willis Power 540 willis's Avatar
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    Default More Control of the Boats Launching

    March 7, 2014

    Hello People,

    Looking at my data from various races, I see there is a lot of room for more improvement in controlling launch of the boat.

    I understand there are many ways to control the launch from using rpm controllers to time elapsed before full throttle kicks in.

    The question I have is how much better was your data when you installed a Placediverter controlling with pneumatics?


    Willis
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    Senior Member bp298's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by willis View Post
    March 7, 2014

    Hello People,

    Looking at my data from various races, I see there is a lot of room for more improvement in controlling launch of the boat.

    I understand there are many ways to control the launch from using rpm controllers to time elapsed before full throttle kicks in.

    The question I have is how much better was your data when you installed a Placediverter controlling with pneumatics?


    Willis
    never ran without one willis. it's one thing to have it on the boat, another thing to get it set up to where the boat launches the way you want it to. takes a lot of testing. some guys just have a rod to set nozzle angle, and never move it underway. allows nozzle angle adjustment without changing thrust centerline. just imo, hydraulics are a way better choice for operating the nozzle. a bj pump will operate the nozzle from bottom to up stops in less than half a second. with pneumatics, just another place to develop an air leak, chase air leaks and re-fill bottles more often. pita.

    maybe you just need to lift some weights, maybe some leg presses. get some strength in that right leg so you can pound it harder?

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    Senior Member bc18's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bp298 View Post
    never ran without one willis. it's one thing to have it on the boat, another thing to get it set up to where the boat launches the way you want it to. takes a lot of testing. some guys just have a rod to set nozzle angle, and never move it underway. allows nozzle angle adjustment without changing thrust centerline. just imo, hydraulics are a way better choice for operating the nozzle. a bj pump will operate the nozzle from bottom to up stops in less than half a second. with pneumatics, just another place to develop an air leak, chase air leaks and re-fill bottles more often. pita.

    maybe you just need to lift some weights, maybe some leg presses. get some strength in that right leg so you can pound it harder?
    Another issue people have had in the past is the cylinder not holding its position while thrust is passing through the nozzle. Air compresses while ATF and hydraulic fluid won't. It's my understanding that this has been resolved by running a higher line pressure and a larger cylinder.

    I believe woods runs air I know forester does...

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    Senior Member bp298's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bc18 View Post
    Another issue people have had in the past is the cylinder not holding its position while thrust is passing through the nozzle. Air compresses while ATF and hydraulic fluid won't. It's my understanding that this has been resolved by running a higher line pressure and a larger cylinder.

    I believe woods runs air I know forester does...
    i had a similar issue with a couple bennett pumps. it is not a problem with the bj pump. i do know a couple people that run air. it's always a question whether or not air pressure is sufficient to hold the thing up. that can be addressed. i like the air shifter for the bucket, just prefer hydraulic for the pd...

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    Senior Member bc18's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bp298 View Post
    i had a similar issue with a couple bennett pumps. it is not a problem with the bj pump. i do know a couple people that run air. it's always a question whether or not air pressure is sufficient to hold the thing up. that can be addressed. i like the air shifter for the bucket, just prefer hydraulic for the pd...
    I have a bj's pump in my Gullwing and I love it. Super fast

  8. #6
    149 BGJ-Willis Power 540 willis's Avatar
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    Default Force applied to PD Arm and screws

    Quote Originally Posted by bp298 View Post
    some guys just have a rod to set nozzle angle, and never move it underway.

    maybe you just need to lift some weights, maybe some leg presses. get some strength in that right leg so you can pound it harder?
    March 9, 2014

    Hello People,

    Just doing the home work on the various sizes of the cylinders for the amount of force apply on the place diverter control arm and screws.
    A cylinder with a 1 ½“ bore size @ 100 psi will produce approximately 161 lbs of force on the arm.
    At what point will the force generated on the arm will it shear the screws or bend the arm?

    Willis

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    Senior Member bp298's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by willis View Post
    March 9, 2014

    Hello People,

    Just doing the home work on the various sizes of the cylinders for the amount of force apply on the place diverter control arm and screws.
    A cylinder with a 1 ½“ bore size @ 100 psi will produce approximately 161 lbs of force on the arm.
    At what point will the force generated on the arm will it shear the screws or bend the arm?

    Willis
    the 3 stock screws that clamp the arm to the nozzle were too small and weak. they'll start bending which changes nozzle angle. we upgraded to 5/16 screws about 10 years ago, and haven't had any problems since then.

    not sure about yours, but a 1 1/2" id cylinder won't come close to fitting on mine. the od of the hydraulic cylinder is 1 1/8", and works just fine.

    willis, if you do this you'll want it on a timer...

  10. #8
    LP-25.com Infomaniac's Avatar
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    Pretty close Willis actual is 176.7 and there is some mechanical advantage also with the length of the arm from the pivot point.
    If For Some Reason I Do Something Worthy Of Recognition. God Provided The Ability And Deserves The Credit.


    QE 439 Twin Turbo

  11. #9
    149 BGJ-Willis Power 540 willis's Avatar
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    Default How to monitor the angle accuarcy

    Quote Originally Posted by Infomaniac View Post
    Pretty close Willis actual is 176.7 and there is some mechanical advantage also with the length of the arm from the pivot point.
    March 9, 2014

    Hello People,

    Depending on what the bowl/nozzle psi, how would you monitor the final angle of the nozzle under full load, 450 plus bowl psi?

    Willis

  12. #10
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    I run a fixed nozzle.

    With a 2 position nozzle on a timer you use stops? And set them with the angle finder.

    Your pump guy should be able to fix you up.
    If For Some Reason I Do Something Worthy Of Recognition. God Provided The Ability And Deserves The Credit.


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  13. #11
    149 BGJ-Willis Power 540 willis's Avatar
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    Default Making the Placediverter work

    Quote Originally Posted by bp298 View Post
    willis. it's one thing to have it on the boat, another thing to get it set up to where the boat launches the way you want it to.

    maybe you just need to lift some weights, maybe some leg presses. get some strength in that right leg so you can pound it harder?
    March 13, 2014

    Hello People,

    Hydraulics was the final choice.
    Going to Bob in Anaheim Friday, 3/14/2014 to pick up the BJ Pummp. Have the computers to control the duration on delay and the off delay.
    The boat should launch much harder going across the timing lights.
    Made a few other adjustments in the slowing down of the boat.

    Roy Miersch made some updates on the pop-off, should be a piece of cake come April 26


    Willis

  14. #12
    Senior Member Boat 405's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by willis View Post
    March 13, 2014

    Hello People,

    Hydraulics was the final choice.
    Going to Bob in Anaheim Friday, 3/14/2014 to pick up the BJ Pummp. Have the computers to control the duration on delay and the off delay.
    The boat should launch much harder going across the timing lights.
    Made a few other adjustments in the slowing down of the boat.

    Roy Miersch made some updates on the pop-off, should be a piece of cake come April 26


    Willis

    Willis, I can't think of too many fast tunnels that use an adjustable nozzle these days. A few guys running place crafts use them. A fixed R nozzle is fairly common place or even a place diverter with a turnbuckle set up.

    Bob makes a nice piece. Good luck.
    Boat 405.

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    Senior Member bp298's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by widowmaker View Post
    Willis, I can't think of too many fast tunnels that use an adjustable nozzle these days. A few guys running place crafts use them. A fixed R nozzle is fairly common place or even a place diverter with a turnbuckle set up.

    Bob makes a nice piece. Good luck.
    the one that comes to mind that does use a p/d is awesome toy. and even with it, that boat tends to wheelstand a bit more than it should. I'd think, if the fixed nozzle angle provides good attitude on the big end at max speed, and the boat still wheelstands at the hit, going with the p/d might be a possible solution.

  16. #14
    149 BGJ-Willis Power 540 willis's Avatar
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    Default Installing the BJ Pump

    Quote Originally Posted by bp298 View Post
    the one that comes to mind that does use a p/d is awesome toy. and even with it, that boat tends to wheelstand a bit more than it should. I'd think, if the fixed nozzle angle provides good attitude on the big end at max speed, and the boat still wheelstands at the hit, going with the p/d might be a possible solution.
    March 14, 2014

    Hello People

    The BJ Pump is set at the factory 400 plus psi. The 400 psi should be enough pressure on the fluid to control where the nose on my boat is at all times.

    The only issue I see here is the correct angle at max up nozzle. I know what I want for the max nozzle angle and that’s a piece of cake to set.

    Willis
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    Last edited by willis; 03-14-2014 at 10:20 PM.

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