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  1. #1
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    Default For the Ford Gurus

    The barge is a 23' Carlson with a Berk jet spinning an "A" impeller. Current engine is shot. Gonna do a complete 460 rebuild using big valve DOVE heads as a starting point. This my first 460 attempt & I want to get it right the first time.

    First question, (of many to come) did Ford ever use the 2.25/1.75 sized valves in a production vehicle? If so which one. I'm trying to find a stock piston that will clear the large intake valve w/o having it to be cut....Thanks....-Rich

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    Promoting pollution Smog Pump's Avatar
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    Hello. I'm told that any vehicle with a 429 CJ or Super CJ would have used that size in a Cast Iron Head similar to your DOVE Heads. Available in Mustangs, Torinos and similar Mercury vehicles in the early 1970's. Most Pistons listed for the CJ/SCJ engine will work fine as the chamber is the same size(75cc).

    This comes from a reliable source that has run Fords only for going on 48 years. If you need info you can call him at 951-763-9765. Ask for Dennis.

    Hope that helps you.

    Phil
    It don't have to be fast to have fun............

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    tintingsandiego krusn56's Avatar
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    I have been to a dozen sites and these guys seem to be 385 series Ford gurus.
    http://www.highflowdynamics.net
    He is on here I think as LAKESONLY.
    Last edited by 74HONDO; 11-12-2015 at 05:51 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 74HONDO View Post
    I have been to a dozen sites and these guys seem to be 385 series Ford gurus.
    http://www.highflowdynamics.net
    He is on here I think as LAKESONLY.
    Lakes only on the board's his name is Paul real good guy to deal with

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    Senior Member rogerroost's Avatar
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    Paul is very helpful.
    I also have a 460 in my boat , ,if I had to do m motor again , I would do it right the first time, meaning stroke it, it's very affordable to be 500 cid plus. also I spent close to $1000 my c9ve heads , I should have spent my $$$ on some Kasse heads . just my opinion in retrospect .

    Sure wish I had a 557 with nice heads with my T/R and carbs in my ride !!

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    Quote Originally Posted by rogerroost View Post
    Paul is very helpful.
    I also have a 460 in my boat , ,if I had to do m motor again , I would do it right the first time, meaning stroke it, it's very affordable to be 500 cid plus. also I spent close to $1000 my c9ve heads , I should have spent my $$$ on some Kasse heads . just my opinion in retrospect .

    Sure wish I had a 557 with nice heads with my T/R and carbs in my ride !!
    The doves i have are brand new from the machine shop with new ss valves & fully ported to 2.5 x 2.2 ports. I researched stroking it but compression and quench go out of control using the doves with the smaller combustion chambers. I need to keep compression down to 9.5 to burn California's boutique gasoline.

    Another question is, are the large ports in the D0VE heads too large for an engine that will redline @ 5500 in a heavy cruiser?
    I do have other heads, c8ve & c9ve i purchased from the same machine shop. These have stock sized Ford valves. So i do have other options.


    I trying to educate myself on bbf before starting the build. I do intend to speak to Paul Kane as he is almost local to me.
    Last edited by Redeye1620; 11-13-2015 at 06:28 AM.

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    Promoting pollution Smog Pump's Avatar
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    Hello again. Stroking the engine will involve using a Piston with a Dish to cut the compression. Many companies make them. C8, C9 and DO Heads are 99.99% the same(valve, port, chamber sizes) except for the casting numbers. That's what Paul will be telling you.

    Yes, I'm a mind reader.

    Your welcome.

    Phil.
    It don't have to be fast to have fun............

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    Senior Member OkieDave's Avatar
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    Default 4.5" stroke

    4.5" stroker kits are pretty affordable. Well worth it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smog Pump View Post
    Hello again. Stroking the engine will involve using a Piston with a Dish to cut the compression. Many companies make them. C8, C9 and DO Heads are 99.99% the same(valve, port, chamber sizes) except for the casting numbers. That's what Paul will be telling you.

    Yes, I'm a mind reader.

    Your welcome.

    Phil.
    I understand using a dish piston to lower compression. But to get the compression down to 9.5 using the small chambered heads I need to go to a -38cc dish. Now the question of quench comes into play & detonation using pump gas. Milling the deck only raises the compression & I may need to go to a deeper dish. It seems to be a vicious circle. Am I missing something here?

    I'm thinking of forgetting the stroker build with the doves & buy some 94cc aluminum heads, problem solved...-Rich

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    Senior Member rogerroost's Avatar
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    I don't understand a few things here . Where did milling the block come from ? How bad is the gas there , I run 10.6 (small chamber ,flat tops ,thick gasket ) on pump gas. why does a stoker dictate comp different than any other build ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Redeye1620 View Post
    The barge is a 23' Carlson with a Berk jet spinning an "A" impeller. Current engine is shot. Gonna do a complete 460 rebuild using big valve DOVE heads as a starting point. This my first 460 attempt & I want to get it right the first time.

    First question, (of many to come) did Ford ever use the 2.25/1.75 sized valves in a production vehicle? If so which one. I'm trying to find a stock piston that will clear the large intake valve w/o having it to be cut....Thanks....-Rich
    Rich,
    I'm running 2.25"/1.77" valves in my D3 heads (also in a CV23). D0VE-A 429 block 0.030" over, 460 balanced rotating assy with CJ/truck rods and Speed Pro Hypers. Block zero-decked. My cam is 0.564/0.582, 276*/284*, 233*/241* @ 0.050", degreed at 0*, Harland Sharp 1.73 roller rockers, and I have no clearance issue with the uncut pistons.

    The D3's have chambers raised ~ 0.100" compared to the D0VE-C heads.

    If I were to do it over again, I'd pass on the D3's as they are very worked (CJ-size ports) and simply rebuild the D0VE-C's I have and do minor porting/blending. The CJ-sized ports are just too big to provide good velocity in the sub-5500rpm range.
    Last edited by 86NovaII; 11-23-2015 at 08:23 PM.
    1978 Glastron/Carlson CV23; 429, Berk jet.

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    Senior Member Flatbottom Kevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redeye1620 View Post
    The doves i have are brand new from the machine shop with new ss valves & fully ported to 2.5 x 2.2 ports. I researched stroking it but compression and quench go out of control using the doves with the smaller combustion chambers. I need to keep compression down to 9.5 to burn California's boutique gasoline.

    Another question is, are the large ports in the D0VE heads too large for an engine that will redline @ 5500 in a heavy cruiser?
    I do have other heads, c8ve & c9ve i purchased from the same machine shop. These have stock sized Ford valves. So i do have other options.


    I trying to educate myself on bbf before starting the build. I do intend to speak to Paul Kane as he is almost local to me.
    I run Big Block Fords in drag cars.
    The D0VE heads will work fantastic in that RPM range. The port velocity will be high and the throttle response will be excellent.
    I have used Speed-Pro Forged Pistons WL2404F30 with big valves without a problem plus they will keep your compression where you can use pump gas with the D0VE heads.
    A set of eagle SIR or similar I beam rods are not a bad investment either. Make sure that you get rods that will work with whatever pistons you run. Pressed pins or floaters, the above pistons are for press pins only.
    Just some ideas.
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