Thrust Bearing
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Thrust Bearing

  1. #1
    No Sandbar To Far sanger rat's Avatar
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    Default Thrust Bearing

    Which brand is the best? I need to replace the Koyo that only lasted 3 seasons.

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    Senior Member sdpm's Avatar
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    I have installed Koyo Brand thrust brgs for over 15 years in many pumps and am glad to say that I have never seen one go bad do to use. Now I have seen them go bad to lack of grease and water getting to them but never from normal use.

    What brand of grease are you using?

    I have been using Mercury/Quicksilver Ujoint/Gimble Bearing Grease on every jet that I have ever built and again have never seen or heard of a single problem. Knock on Wood!!!

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    No Sandbar To Far sanger rat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdpm View Post
    I have installed Koyo Brand thrust brgs for over 15 years in many pumps and am glad to say that I have never seen one go bad do to use. Now I have seen them go bad to lack of grease and water getting to them but never from normal use.

    What brand of grease are you using?

    I have been using Mercury/Quicksilver Ujoint/Gimble Bearing Grease on every jet that I have ever built and again have never seen or heard of a single problem. Knock on Wood!!!
    The Koyo came from you a few years back. I've been using Mobil 1 Synthetic Grease in it. http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub...tic_Grease.asp I keep it greased, It would get a pump or two just about every other trip out.

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    Boat Nut sleekcrafter's Avatar
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    Rat is that a true EP (extreme pressure ) grease? Was under the impression synthetic was not recomended for a rolling application, more benifitial for sliding.

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    Senior Member sdpm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanger rat View Post
    The Koyo came from you a few years back. I've been using Mobil 1 Synthetic Grease in it. http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub...tic_Grease.asp I keep it greased, It would get a pump or two just about every other trip out.

    What does it look like and what is going away on it? Let's see what is going on with it. Send it to Ron Gordon at American Turbine and let him look at it and see what he says. I think he has seen everything out there and might give us some information. You never know but you might even get a brg out of it from the mfg if deemed a bad brg. Worth a shot. Post a picture if you can. Thanks

    Neil

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    Quote Originally Posted by sleekcrafter View Post
    Rat is that a true EP (extreme pressure ) grease? Was under the impression synthetic was not recomended for a rolling application, more benifitial for sliding.
    The decription says extreme-pressure properties. I'll change grease if have to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sdpm View Post
    What does it look like and what is going away on it? Let's see what is going on with it. Send it to Ron Gordon at American Turbine and let him look at it and see what he says. I think he has seen everything out there and might give us some information. You never know but you might even get a brg out of it from the mfg if deemed a bad brg. Worth a shot. Post a picture if you can. Thanks

    Neil
    I've yet to pull the pump apart. It's still snowing here. I'm not after a free bearing or anything I just want to replace it with a quality part.

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    Senior Member sdpm's Avatar
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    I understand Rat, but I as well would like to know what the problem is and what caused the problem. If it is a grease type issue then I think everyone would like to know as well. Just a suggestion. I have used both Koyo and ZLK brgs and I think they have been great. Maybe it could be something with the grease? I have never used synthetic grease only the Merc stuff.

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    I want to know the reason for the failure too. But this time a round I'm going with the ZLK bearing.

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    Most likely the bearing did not fail due to fatigue. I work for a bearing manufacturer (NSK) and industry data shows that causes of bearing failures are distributed as follows.

    3% Fatigue (Full Life)
    30% Lubrication (too much, to little, wrong type, etc.)
    50% Contamination
    17% Installation (Fill Slot Direction ?)

    When you take the pump apart, pay attention to which way the fill slot (notch) in the face of inner and outer ring is facing. It should be facing towards the engine. There have been plenty of threads on this subject.
    Is a max type bearing even necessary for this application?

    I agree with Neil, send it to AT and request a failure analysis from Koyo. Bearing companies are interested in failure modes so they can improve the product and/or make recommendations to users on maintenance etc.

    Regarding relubrication. Based on some charts I looked at in our catalog and SKF's, at 4000 rpm constant speed, the relube amount and interval is .4 -.5 oz. per 4000 hours..........so is the pump lubed for life?? Seems like the grease life is a critical factor in the application. Any lube experts out there?

    Also the initial grease fill should be 100% of the open space in the bearing and 40% of the free space in the housing. (according to NSK and SKF catalogs)

    One component that is always needed in calculating bearing and grease life is load. Does anyone know what the maximum loads (radial and axial) are on a jet drive thrust bearing? Come on you engineer types, jump in and contribute.

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    Senior Member sdpm's Avatar
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    Hi Dave, I completly forgot about you working for a brg company! That's some good information. I have a question though. If the zerk on a Berkeley Jet is behind the thrust brg, why should the fill slot be at the other side of where the grease is comming in (engine side)?

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    The notch is facing the right direction. Went over that on the old board.

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    Yep, still out fighting friction............

    The fill slot is not for filling grease. It is there to allow more balls to be filled into the bearing during the manufacturing process. The "max-type" bearing has a fill slot, more balls and higher load capacity than standard bearings.

    In industrial pumps a lot of users are moving away from max-type bearings because of failures attributed to the rolling elements rolling across the area of the fill slot that intersects with the race ways. This occurs when (for a variety of reasons) the thrust changes direction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sanger rat View Post
    The notch is facing the right direction. Went over that on the old board.

    Thought that was you. Definately try and get it analyzed to determine the failure mode. Hopefully it is at a point in the failure progression where the root
    cause can be determined. Also, if you do send it to AT for an FA leave the grease in it or if you clean it, save some of the old grease and send it in with the bearing.

    Good luck.........

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