[Question] Planning to run Packajet cooling on a small block chevy.
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Planning to run Packajet cooling on a small block chevy.

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    Member John Thompson's Avatar
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    Default Planning to run Packajet cooling on a small block chevy.

    I am looking for pictures of the parts I need, and the parts themselves. One thing off the bat I know I need is the cast thermostat piece with the multiple hose fittings. I assume the pump is a generic automotive short shaft.

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    Member John Thompson's Avatar
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    I put this together. I think this is the essense of the Packajet cooling system. But I don't know.

    [EDIT: please see updated pic below]
    Last edited by John Thompson; 09-14-2017 at 05:14 PM.

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    Member John Thompson's Avatar
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    I really do not want to offend anyone. What is the purpose of jetboating - I thought it was to have fun. The reason I say this is I have completely pissed off the admin at the Socal Jet Boats Facebook page. This was to do what started with a difference of opinion, but escalated very childishly into full blown arguement.

    In other words, I do not want to offend anyone. Please do not read, "I am right, you are wrong", into any of the following. Not anyone.

    The Berkeley Packajet cooling system incorporated a circulating pump, as in a car. There are at least four reasons for this.

    1) Elimination of air bubbles / pockets / steam traps (engine longevity)
    2) Equalization of temp in the cooling passages - everywhere (engine longevity)
    3) Elimination of temperature swings (engine longevity)
    4) Temperature control to within one degree, across the power band. (fuel efficiency)

    Mercruiser and OMC (I have only seen their schematics recently) and probably many others still run circulation from the factory.

    Circulation is not for everyone, especially extreme racing. Cooler the better, and longevity is a non issue. I am sure there are other very arguable reasons to not run circulation.

    I am making the choice to run circulation, because I am building a boat I don't want to touch again, engine wise, and am handing it down to my sons in the future.

    Here is a Donzi. I just found this a minute ago.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by John Thompson; 09-14-2017 at 09:08 AM.

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    Yes, your original post/diagram would work fine, assuming you are running a thermostat in that system.

    Due to possible high water pressure from the jet, you probably should add a pressure relief and/or regulator between the jet pump and thermostat, especially if you plan to turn high RPMs.

    Good luck

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    Member John Thompson's Avatar
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    Real McCoy - I will not be turning more than 5000 RPM. It will be a family boat. Do you think that will give me a pressure issue? I assume these pressure issues have to do with water not being able to get out of the system fast enough. I hate to put any restriction into the system, but would rather allow the water another way out. Do you have any thoughts on any of this? I very much appreciate the information.

    To the responder regarding a closed system. That is without a doubt a superior idea. I am gonna run with it this way I guess. I don't run into sand in Maine, I guess I am gonna chance it. I really appreciate the insights. Have been considering a strainer though. Any thoughts are appreciated.

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    '74 Sanger ski hydro the General's Avatar
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    I see now that you're doing something different and my posts were of no benefit to what you're doing. I do have to ask, how does this setup work any different than a bypass thermostat setup minus the automotive water pump?
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    Member John Thompson's Avatar
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    As I am led to believe, a boat would lose those 4 items I listed above, if there is no circulation pump. The entire mass of water in the engine and heads is kept in motion, in a manner similar to what the engine designer intended. I would have done it anyway, like with a 350, but the 400 (I am using) has siamesed walls and is suseptible to steam pockets, so, it's just a way to help mitigate that too. It's more an investment in the future than anything else, I believe.

    There is a person getting me some pix of an unaltered Packajet engine tonight. I made another drawing. All this is open for correction. I still don't know if I have it right.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by John Thompson; 09-14-2017 at 01:51 PM.

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    My CVX-20 has a 1977 berk packajet/460 Ford and has no water pump.....Only the pressure/flow from the jet drive.....It goes in the front cover, from there it goes into the block AND up into the Thermo housing, where the thermo housing then also has the hoses connected from the exhaust manifolds......I drilled a number of holes thru the thermostat to bleed water/air thru- I have used this setup for 12 years with no problems.....I go water skiing every weekend in the Delta and spend two weeks up at Trinity lake every year....I use it a lot and it works very well...warms up quickly and then stays between 160 and 200 depending on when I am idling or hitting it. I use it in the Spring/Fall when the water temp is 55 degrees, and at Trinity were the water temp can be as high as 87 and the air temp is 100*.

    Note; I have the Center-rise exhaust, so the water goes in and then flows up into the riser and then dumps into the exhaust and out the back...If you have logs, with the pre-heat then yours hooks up differently......By the way, I can not see the diagram you posted.
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    Last edited by cvxjet; 09-14-2017 at 03:55 PM.

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    Senior Member bp298's Avatar
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    I don't think that's a "packajet" setup. the multi-port thermostat housing you're showing is the same one that's on my mercruiser. on that, there is a separate water pump that supplies the front mounted engine water pump. the two small ports you are using to supply the snails are used for a temp sensor, and another sensor. water from the water pump is supplied to one of the two inside ports, the other inside port is routed through an oil cooler, then to the exhaust. engine water pump supplies the engine, creates pressure. it's all factory, not easy to see everything with all the junk in there.

    on my placecraft, i run a meziere water pump with tank, a closed system. if you have a thermostat housing that's at a point elevated above all other water passages, there's no reason for "pockets" to form, unless there is no flow. i DO NOT use a thermostat because I've had them break before, and that can lead to problems. for the placecraft, the thermostat housing discharges to a small old mercruiser oil cooler, tube side. water from the jet drive is routed to the shell side, flowpath reversed from engine coolant flow. this has worked fine for 3 years. under load with rpm elevated, engine temp is fine, around 150-160. if i have to idle for extended periods, engine gets too warm. i think the next size up cooler would work just fine. i knew another guy that had a much larger heat exchanger; jet water was cut way back to keep the engine above 120.

    you could use a belt driven engine water pump the same way i'm using the mezeire. just need a separate tank as an accumulator/fill for a closed system (the system you are contemplating is not closed). the closed system has the benefit of preventing corrosion/erosion in water passages, which has already cost me a pair of fairly expensive heads and a block. also damaged the current expensive heads, but it was repairable.

    in an open system, with a jet drive supplying water, as long as you have continuous flow, the issues you listed aren't really issues. not too sure what the benefit would be running a water pump on the engine, when the pump is supplying the water. the other thing you should understand is that, at low rpm, flowrate from the jet drive is substantially less. if that water pump is trying to pressurize the engine, and supply the snails at the same time, jet drive flow may not be enough and you could be creating vapor gaps in the engine unintentionally.

    so - just my 2 cents. if you're intent on using a water pump, it would be much better to design a closed system that can actually protect the engine from real potential problems, rather than imagined ones.

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    Member John Thompson's Avatar
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    Thank you gentlemen. All discussion is appreciated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Thompson View Post
    Real McCoy - I will not be turning more than 5000 RPM. It will be a family boat. Do you think that will give me a pressure issue? I assume these pressure issues have to do with water not being able to get out of the system fast enough. .
    You would likely not have an overpressure issue. That said it would be cheap insurance to install a pressure relief so you can bypass any extra water - no restriction, just releases if pressure exceeds preset amount. Hi-Tech Performance (Duane) and some others sell kits or you could buy the hardware separately.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Thompson View Post
    .....Have been considering a strainer though. Any thoughts are appreciated.
    A strainer is a good idea for any cooling system drawing from the lake or river or sea. (almost all the systems out there). If you put one in, don't go cheap and clean it regularly. They keep the crap out of the engine, but can plug and restrict water flow and cause overheating.

    Your "new/improved" layout shows you pre-heating the water through the exhaust manifolds before going into the engine. That is rarely done when you run a thermostat and circulating pump and adds some complexity to the system. Most modern systems (including MerCruiser) cool the engine and then go out through the manifold and riser.

    Doug

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    Member John Thompson's Avatar
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    Doug, I really like the idea of a pressure relief. Thanks for that tip. I will look into getting one. [EDIT: Just watched the CPPerformance video - looks awesome]

    On the water going thru the logs first. Yes. I am trying to find the logic of going through the logs first, or just going the way you have noted (I have seen it as well many times). I got some detailed pics last night of a Packajet setup (I asked for them for the thermostat plumbing), and I was surprised - they are feeding the logs first off the jetpump. I also saw someone who built up a Glen - L plywood hotrod. The man that built it was ultra meticulous in every detail of construction. He did not have a jet pump, it was a V drive, but he took water out of the lake, ran thru a strainer, then went to the logs too.

    So ... I am a seeker here. I am always wide open, but I am always looking for "why".
    Last edited by John Thompson; 09-16-2017 at 07:39 AM.

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    Senior Member bp298's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Thompson View Post
    Doug, I really like the idea of a pressure relief. Thanks for that tip. I will look into getting one. [EDIT: Just watched the CPPerformance video - looks awesome]

    On the water going thru the logs first. Yes. I am trying to find the logic of going through the logs first, or just going the way you have noted (I have seen it as well many times). I got some detailed pics last night of a Packajet setup (I asked for them for the thermostat plumbing), and I was surprised - they are feeding the logs first off the jetpump. I also saw someone who built up a Glen - L plywood hotrod. The man that built it was ultra meticulous in every detail of construction. He did not have a jet pump, it was a V drive, but he took water out of the lake, ran thru a strainer, then went to the logs too.

    So ... I am a seeker here. I am always wide open, but I am always looking for "why".
    you might want to go through the logs first If you're running in cold water, like 50 or less. keep in mind that you are still creating an open system, meaning water comes in from the lake/river, makes a single pass through the engine, and returns to the lake/river. so heat removal is based on Tout - Tin, X flow rate. the temp you may read is only an indication of water temperature on the way out, not indicative of actual engine temp. if you have a set flow rate, raising the temp of the water coming in automatically results in raising the temp of the water going out.
    and if you go from the jet through logs first, you won't have to worry about water pressure from the jet drive.

  16. #14
    '74 Sanger ski hydro the General's Avatar
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    Not trying to hijack your thread but I found some decently priced heat exchangers on ebay. They have them listed for the heating of swimming pools in all different sizes. Does anyone know how to calculate the size heat exchanger it would take to cool a 540? They list them by BTU rating
    87 Kustom Kraft open bow cruiser jet
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