Gonna ask for a little help/advice as I am stumping myself...
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Gonna ask for a little help/advice as I am stumping myself...

  1. #1
    Bostick Racing Engines six-oh-nine's Avatar
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    Default Gonna ask for a little help/advice as I am stumping myself...

    Ok, here it is... so I've been trying to do all sorts of weird 'chit on my own here for a while... from trying different ideas on hardware and bottom work on the boat (with a bit of extremely valuable advice/help from Vic Vanhorn and Mike Podwoski (thanks guys!) which I'm kinda happy with) to trying different engine combinations (which is frustrating the hell out of me) pretty much on my own, as I really enjoy doing "outside of the box" projects, and learning from the experience. I could easily hang a set of carbs and a big 'ol nitrous system on my combo, get a tune on it and go racing and make some headway... basically... relativlely speaking... take the easy or rather "proven" road. But that ain't me... and not what I wish to do. I want different and make it work like I "KNOW" it can... which is why I went from weird (alcohol injected with nitrous) and starting to get ahold of the problms I was having and SLOWLY making progress (Elsinore race really helped me figure out exactly where I was going wrong and where my tuning problems were) to where I really wanted to be originally which was on nitro.

    So I believe I stumbled upon a answer to my new problem... which leads me to a question for the racing type folks....

    1) When was the last time anyone knows of anyone running nitro in a jetboat with any sort of sucess? I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say about mid to late 80's when you had to drive out to the rope... is this about right?

    The problem I am having is... I get a tune on the engine and it kicks ass... 30% nitro with 50 nozzles and 90 main jet... turns an MPD Legend B with an inducer 7500-7600 rpm on a slightly fat tune and a little lite on timing (at 40 degrees).... pulls out of the hole to the point of being difficult to drive (hence the previous questions about throttle pnumatic launch controllers) and just rips... like I needed to make a couple of hardware changes as the boat was beginning to get flighty and needed to bring he back to the safe area. I was actually looking to go up to one of Jack's A's or AA's to tug the engine down more as all the experience I have with nitro from back when I used to work with my pops on an A/F Dragster was the harder you loaded it... if you can build enough heat... the more fuel you can shove in it and the more power it makes. (hence the reason we ditched the 2 speed tranny and 3.25 gears and went to direct drive and 3.0 gears, threw more fuel at it and instantly went faster)

    But... that was getting her up to 175 degrees on water temp... 150 oil... hooking up the driveshaft... dumping her in and going right then... less than 10 miniutes from warmup bucket to driving.

    Saturday at San Diego... warm her up... get her nice and toasty... 195-200 ish... sit for over 30 minutes in the staging lanes... and 2 hours on the rope... start her up... roll over nice and easy... and plank the throttle... all stone cold (less than 100 degrees on the water and oil temp gauges)... and 6500 was all she wrote... well... then the fuel pump belt broke and then no rpm

    So here is the next question I have...

    2) Does anyone have an effective way to keep heat in their engines up around the 180 degree area for extended periods of time? Some sort of radiator perhaps? Or the question would be better asked as, "How do you keep your engine temp up while waiting in staging lanes... on the rope... for extended periods of time as seems to happen quite often?"

    Sorry about this being long winded and rambling a bit... I'm just at a point of feeling like no matter how hard I beat my head against this wall it ain't gonna budge. If I can't keep heat in the engine... I am just not going to be able to run what I want to run and will go a different route... perhaps 8 Mikuni 50mm carbs on E-85...
    The Bostick®

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  3. #2
    Senior Member bp298's Avatar
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    james, tom ennis was running nitro in the 90s, can't remember if he was in 00 or 01.
    when it's cool climate like it was over there, i'll throw moving blankets over the heads/intake after warmup until almost time to go in. if i sit in the cold long enough, it'll affect certain things on my deal too. i've had to sit on the rope for over an hour at several places, sat on the rope for 2 1/2 hours at ming once. whenever that happens, you should get an extended warm up time on the rope (at least as long as you want), and if not, there is a choice; make the pass anyway, or toss your hands up broke, call for the trailer. the starter has the option, and a little "reason" can go a long way. in other words, i'm not above standing up and the boat and screaming at him until i get his attention, and i've had to do that once this year. the thing is, stuff like this can, and does happen anywhere/everywhere.
    there are block heaters you could rig up some way to plug into a generator until you launch - dunno if you'd want to go that far... cold weather is sometimes a real bitch. in texas, after the first warmup, the thing never cools...

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    Senior Member Marcsrollin's Avatar
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    How long do you have to run the motor to warm it up enough for what you are doing? Maybe just do a short warm up in the staging lane before you drop it in the water.
    No matter how good she looks , someone is tired of her shit!

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    Spiral out MikeF's Avatar
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    Nitro.....in a gullwing?!

    There really is not any easy way to keep heat in the engine after initial warm up other than throwing the covers over it when moving to the inramp......after that.....you're at the will of whatever happens until you run. Anything you might try to do to create heat, will add weight....which affects your e/t.

    At the last race something happened just before our run and both boats sat on the rope for at least 30+ min. Both boats were gonna be tough to get down the track cause both are running nitrous and I was concerned because of prior problems caused partially by "wait time" on the rope.

    Build a 900ci and put a huge impeller behind it. Noone's done that yet over here. (edit....not to be placed in a gullwing)
    Last edited by MikeF; 09-21-2009 at 12:41 PM.

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    Senior Member Marcsrollin's Avatar
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    His set up is in a crusader tunnell not a gull wing.
    No matter how good she looks , someone is tired of her shit!

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    LP-25.com Infomaniac's Avatar
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    Ditch the water block for a solid one.

  9. #7
    Bostick Racing Engines six-oh-nine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcsrollin View Post
    How long do you have to run the motor to warm it up enough for what you are doing? Maybe just do a short warm up in the staging lane before you drop it in the water.
    It takes about 4-5 gallons of fuel with the fuel shut off trimmed back about half way to get heat in it... so I'd say from stone cold... 15-20 minutes... already warmed that day... about 7-10... and still about 3 or so gallons.

    When we ran A/fuel car we warmed up a solid block and heads... got the oil temp up... and perhaps 30 minutes in staging lanes... fired up... did a burnout... backed it up... staged... and then go. So we really didn't have this sort of situation per se... if there was a wreck or something that held the program up for a while... we got sent back to the pits and called back up. But in asphalt drags... this si not a big deal... boat drags... program is held up due to whatever... putting everyone back on the trailer and so on is a bit more of an ordeal.
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    Resident Ford Nut Sleeper CP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeF View Post

    Anything you might try to do to create heat, will add weight....which affects your e/t.
    With that in mind, after seeing the Pro-Mod "Crap Shoot" a few times and it's closed cooling system I've wondered if they heat the water and the oil in the pits? And do you heat it to 220* while in the pits because by the time you're in the stagging lanes on the rope and go at least an hour will have passed.

    James, if you or someone added a 16volt battery and two oil heaters, one in the pan and one of those sticky ones to the out-side of the pan and maybe a small pump to pump oil to the valve covers to circulate it to keep the heads warm. Would it be worth the effort, how hot could you keep the oil and how long would the 16 volt battery last? Or ditch the pump that would use a ton of power.

    Would the juice be worth the squeeze ?


    Edit: Can you pass tech with one of these in the boat




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    Last edited by Sleeper CP; 09-21-2009 at 01:23 PM.

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  11. #9
    Senior Member cyclone's Avatar
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    james,

    quite a few of the flatty guys run closed cooling systems with small heat exchangers/radiators. might be one option.

    or put a valve in between the jet pump and engine to control the water flow to the engine.

    with a 30 second warm up time on the rope you should be able to build heat with no water going to the engine. then when you're ready to leave the line turn the water on.

    there are several options for triggering that sort of system too if you don't want it to work manually.

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    Senior Member Red Rocket's Avatar
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    Put a check valve in the water inlet so the water can't drain back out through the pump. Warm the engine in the pits as hot as you would like and the water will hold heat in the engine for quite some time. Like others have said put blankets over the engine as well.

    BP is right Tom Eniss was running it as late as the 00 or 01 season with some sucess.

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    CANT RE MEMBER FARMER JOHN's Avatar
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    Default Havin fun yet

    Plus, you can put a block heater in the oil pan and run it on a generator right up until you put it in the water, it still might not be enough if you sit on the rope for two hours

    and then you have to address the problem of the nitro sitting there for two hours



    JAMES, if it was easy everybody would be doing it !

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    Bostick Racing Engines six-oh-nine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Rocket View Post
    Put a check valve in the water inlet so the water can't drain back out through the pump. Warm the engine in the pits as hot as you would like and the water will hold heat in the engine for quite some time. Like others have said put blankets over the engine as well.

    BP is right Tom Eniss was running it as late as the 00 or 01 season with some sucess.
    Thanks for the input... not trying to be a negative guy or anything... I already run an enderle check valve with a light spring in it for a 1 way sort of check valve/no flow at idle pressure... it doesn't start flowing water till about 3000 to 3500 rpm range... along with a .100 jet in it... when i was running gas this worked great but I used a .130-.150 jet (depending on water temp) to keep it about 170 on water temp.

    My old man had an idea from when he used to run with Sumeck/Meyer/Slick with their Donovan before they went to billet heads... run ATF in the cooling system closed off.

    The question I have is then... how sucessful was Tom with the nitro... or was he pissing up a rope as I seem to be.
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    Bostick Racing Engines six-oh-nine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FARMER JOHN View Post

    and then you have to address the problem of the nitro sitting there for two hours


    Mixed up a batch at 31% with the fule temp correction factored in... figured it would drop slightly (about a percent) by the time it sat in the tank for a while... by the time I pulled the fuel out after the run and checked it... it had dropped to 26%... I figure the tank sitting in the sun didn't help me much... but to drop from 31% to 26% is quite a fuel tune change... at least it went to the fat side.
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    Senior Member Red Rocket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by six-oh-nine View Post
    Thanks for the input... not trying to be a negative guy or anything... I already run an enderle check valve with a light spring in it for a 1 way sort of check valve/no flow at idle pressure... it doesn't start flowing water till about 3000 to 3500 rpm range... along with a .100 jet in it... when i was running gas this worked great but I used a .130-.150 jet (depending on water temp) to keep it about 170 on water temp.

    My old man had an idea from when he used to run with Sumeck/Meyer/Slick with their Donovan before they went to billet heads... run ATF in the cooling system closed off.

    The question I have is then... how sucessful was Tom with the nitro... or was he pissing up a rope as I seem to be.
    He had some parts breakage problems but got the thing to run in the low 8's possibly 7.90's if I remember right. It wasn't real consistant from what I remember but he may been changing nitro %, but he usually made it through the weekend. I think its a cool set up just gonna be hard to get a handle on.

    Does the Enderle check you run hold the warm up water in the motor after you remove the warm up bucket? I run one in mine but find it sticks open some times and lets the water out of the motor through the cooling line from the jet.

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