V-drive type steering in a Jet?
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V-drive type steering in a Jet?

  1. #1
    Senior Member lbhsbz's Avatar
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    Default V-drive type steering in a Jet?

    So I had this idea... (grab a beer...this is a good one)...

    Conventional single cable push/pull systems suck because there's alot of slop in 'em.

    Calgo setups solve the slop problem, but I've read about a couple cables breaking. Cables are a wear item, and when they're in a sheath (like the calgo)..it makes it tough to inspect 'em. Plus, calgo systems are $$$

    My idea is this:

    I have a few old pump shafts that'll make perfect steering columns...put a flange mounted bearing on the backside of the dash and another one on the bulkhead, run the shaft between the 2 bearings and attach the steering hub to the part sticking out of the dash.

    instead of the bicycle chain setup like the V-drives use, instead I'll use a drum on the shaft with about 5 or 6 wraps of cable...Run the ends of the cable threw a set of pulleys on the stringers up front, down the stringers, threw a set of pulleys on the stringers near the transom, then another set of pulleys on the transom next to/above the pump, and then out the transom through 2 holes and connect to the tiller arm. The cables though-hulls would be sealed with rubber bellows.

    There would be a turnbuckle on each side cable end to adjust alignment and to adjust for cable stretch. The cables are 100% exposed for easy inspection. There are no sheaths to trap water and hide damage. I can make the system with stuff I've got in the garage...except the bearings. Cables will be stainless.

    Any problems with this idea?

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Constant840's Avatar
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    Calgo
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  4. #3
    21 Daytona Outlaw's Avatar
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    dual push pull cables

    besides that does the slop make a diff in a jet??? not like is a
    precise system anyway
    #55

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    Senior Member SoldHondaBoughtHondo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lbhsbz View Post
    So I had this idea... (grab a beer...this is a good one)...

    Conventional single cable push/pull systems suck because there's alot of slop in 'em.

    Calgo setups solve the slop problem, but I've read about a couple cables breaking. Cables are a wear item, and when they're in a sheath (like the calgo)..it makes it tough to inspect 'em. Plus, calgo systems are $$$

    My idea is this:

    I have a few old pump shafts that'll make perfect steering columns...put a flange mounted bearing on the backside of the dash and another one on the bulkhead, run the shaft between the 2 bearings and attach the steering hub to the part sticking out of the dash.

    instead of the bicycle chain setup like the V-drives use, instead I'll use a drum on the shaft with about 5 or 6 wraps of cable...Run the ends of the cable threw a set of pulleys on the stringers up front, down the stringers, threw a set of pulleys on the stringers near the transom, then another set of pulleys on the transom next to/above the pump, and then out the transom through 2 holes and connect to the tiller arm. The cables though-hulls would be sealed with rubber bellows.

    There would be a turnbuckle on each side cable end to adjust alignment and to adjust for cable stretch. The cables are 100% exposed for easy inspection. There are no sheaths to trap water and hide damage. I can make the system with stuff I've got in the garage...except the bearings. Cables will be stainless.

    Any problems with this idea?

    If you are just asking.....why change the v-drive system at all? i
    It seems like wrapping cable around a shaft would require unnecessary cable tension to keep slack out of the cable and the sprocket deal allows you to get the steering ration where you like it.

    Besides, most if not all slop in a cable system is in the linkage and you can buy fittings so you can pack grease in the wet end to keep the water out......

    Cable systems have way more wear points..

    Mine has 9 separate pulleys and the bushings they roll on...and a tension adjuster and an upper steering shaft bushing and a lower steering shaft bearing, a sprocket that has 2 set screws and a pin to attach it to the shaft, a piece of chain clamped to a cable on both ends...

    None of the parts are easy to find if they fail and if any one of them fail it's all about a catastrophic loss of steering....so inspecting everything it's just another thing on the checklist i go through each and every time the boat leaves my driveway.

    And when the boat flexes it gets sloppy anyway.....

    I can't help but wonder if a cable might work better in my v-drive!
    A cable seems so simple....add a little grease and if it ever gives me grief a new cable is easy to find and maybe an hour to change


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  7. #5
    Senior Member lbhsbz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outlaw View Post
    dual push pull cables

    besides that does the slop make a diff in a jet??? not like is a
    precise system anyway
    It wouldn't be dual push pull like they do for outboards...it would be pull-pull using wire rope like the v-drives do.

    Precise is always better...The last setup with a brand new Teleflex steering rack/cable had a little more than 10° of nozzle slop in it. Its a little harder to make minor adjustments in steering input with that much slop in the cable.
    Last edited by lbhsbz; 11-05-2010 at 01:32 PM.

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    mo balls than $cents$ IMPATIENT 1's Avatar
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    b nice to have some type of cheap helm that's hyd and use a divertor style hyd ram to steer with. i know some will say that's asking for trouble but most of us have seen 1st hand what happens when a cable breaks

    Dare to be different, if it turns out great you can claim you planned it that way.

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    I'm famous ! Lucky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IMPATIENT 1 View Post
    b nice to have some type of cheap helm that's hyd and use a divertor style hyd ram to steer with. i know some will say that's asking for trouble but most of us have seen 1st hand what happens when a cable breaks
    i have been contiplating the same idea - I have it build in my mind except with out drive rams( in board ) with a newly designed quadrant and resevoire pump on da motoa -- for a v drive of course
    " my carbon footprint is gonna kick your green ass"


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    Quote Originally Posted by lbhsbz View Post
    It wouldn't be dual push pull like they do for outboards...it would be pull-pull using wire rope like the v-drives do.

    Precise is always better...The last setup with a brand new Teleflex steering rack/cable had a little more than 10° of nozzle slop in it. Its a little harder to make minor adjustments in steering input with that much slop in the cable.
    The shop race boat runs 2 cables...one one each side of the pump, it has a matching arm on the other side and the steering column is set up to control 2 racks and there is no play in it at all....might be the easiest way to go...

    And i can see the need for precise steering...on a boat that won't steer at all if the motor isn't running...
    "A liberal paradise would be a place where everybody has
    guaranteed employment, free comprehensive healthcare, free
    education, free food, free housing, free clothing, free
    utilities, and only law enforcement has guns. And believe it or
    not, such a place does, indeed, exist: It's called prison."

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    Senior Member Xerophobic's Avatar
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    All whitewater boats run dual rack cable systems, no slop and safer.

    Cheers

    FYI some guys in NZ run a cable style setup, always seemed more complicated to me, not sure I understand the advantage.....
    If you ain't hittin bottom...you ain't jetboatin!

  12. #10
    Senior Member lbhsbz's Avatar
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    Where do I find one of these dual cable rack setups? I've never seen one. I've heard about them on outboards.....bur you'd have to have the cables opposite for jet....or crossover somewhere i'n the boat. Is it like a double sided pinion that you can bolt the racks on whichever way you want or ???.

    If it's cheaper than the calgo setup I'm very interested. I've never seen this style on a jet before

  13. #11
    Junior Member speedboats's Avatar
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    3 sets of pulleys, all stainless hardware, lockwire, never any issues.
    Column is cast in alloy, machined and roller bearings pressed in. Pulleys use needle bearings (instead of inferrior bushings). New sprockets can be added to the end of the column for faster or slower steering, absolutely zero slop. Easy.
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  14. #12
    Senior Member GT Jets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lbhsbz View Post
    Where do I find one of these dual cable rack setups? I've never seen one. I've heard about them on outboards.....bur you'd have to have the cables opposite for jet....or crossover somewhere i'n the boat. Is it like a double sided pinion that you can bolt the racks on whichever way you want or ???.

    If it's cheaper than the calgo setup I'm very interested. I've never seen this style on a jet before
    Pat, I think I have what you are looking for in storage...It is a dual rack like they use on the outboards...Tis is what we have used for nearly two decades....

    The reason you haven't really seen it is because we don't use them the way they were originally intended...One rack goes to the right, the other to the left, both cables will work opposite each other...

    As long as the geometry is symmetrical it works Tits LaRue

    I will do some digging tomorrow during the rain storm

    Working on the daughters 4 Runner today...

    The system you are talking about they have actually done on a smaller scale 40+ years ago on smaller outboards and was outlawed by the Coast Guard a long time ago, they called it a tiller cable system, as far as I know it is still used on river hydros (outboard) and other outboard racing craft...

    I have no idea if this link will work, but it is an article from a 1961 Popular Mechanics... http://books.google.com/books?id=lds...system&f=false
    GT


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    Put a 300 on the back of it, Flywheel it and a nosecone. $15,000 later you'll have a 65 mph pile of shit......

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    Senior Member GT Jets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedboats View Post
    3 sets of pulleys, all stainless hardware, lockwire, never any issues.
    Column is cast in alloy, machined and roller bearings pressed in. Pulleys use needle bearings (instead of inferrior bushings). New sprockets can be added to the end of the column for faster or slower steering, absolutely zero slop. Easy.

    I am wondering where you got that exhaust crossover/muffler setup...

    I have built about a dozen of these for customers and have never seen another...They work awesome...
    GT


    Quote Originally Posted by Quickjet View Post
    Put a 300 on the back of it, Flywheel it and a nosecone. $15,000 later you'll have a 65 mph pile of shit......

  16. #14
    Boat Nut sleekcrafter's Avatar
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    My pops had that system on his 74 Larson, talk about a headache.
    Upper Midwest Power Boat Association
    DRAG BOAT RACING UMPBA #926


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