LS1 or BBC?
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LS1 or BBC?

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    Senior Member Lildave's Avatar
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    Default LS1 or BBC?

    Let's throw this out there for debate and see where the comments go... I feel more at home around an LS motor because of my Camaro's and Trans Am's. I'm out of my element with my BBC that is in my boat.

    Boat - 16' Mantra Tunnel Hull (305lbs bare hull)
    Pump - Dominator with B impeller


    Current engine - .060 over 427 with square port iron heads. 12.5 to 1. tunnel with 660's. Headers, etc. (The guy helping me estimates 550hp?)

    LS1 would be - Ported heads, Cam, Headers, Tuned, EFI, (Approx 500hp)



    My goals for the boat-
    Semi decent lake boat (mostly cove racing and hanging out)
    100mph
    One day POSSIBLY compete in River Racer/SE/ME (Whatever I fit in)



    What do you think would make a better combination and why?

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    Senior Member Lildave's Avatar
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    P.S. - A bottle is not out of the question for either engine.

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    mo balls than $cents$ IMPATIENT 1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lildave View Post
    P.S. - A bottle is not out of the question for either engine.
    600hp on the bottle ls deal is gna leave stupid quik if you're lake racing or in the coves and only racing 800-900ft. you know where i stand on the ls vs bbc deal lol

    600hp ls in a hull like ours is gna do 100mph pretty easily dave if things are kept light as possible and balanced. im looking for 110+ outta my lil deal, will be veryyyy disapointed with anything less than that
    Last edited by IMPATIENT 1; 12-08-2010 at 10:45 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lildave View Post
    Let's throw this out there for debate and see where the comments go... I feel more at home around an LS motor because of my Camaro's and Trans Am's. I'm out of my element with my BBC that is in my boat.

    Boat - 16' Mantra Tunnel Hull (305lbs bare hull)
    Pump - Dominator with B impeller


    Current engine - .060 over 427 with square port iron heads. 12.5 to 1. tunnel with 660's. Headers, etc. (The guy helping me estimates 550hp?)

    LS1 would be - Ported heads, Cam, Headers, Tuned, EFI, (Approx 500hp)



    My goals for the boat-
    Semi decent lake boat (mostly cove racing and hanging out)
    100mph
    One day POSSIBLY compete in River Racer/SE/ME (Whatever I fit in)



    What do you think would make a better combination and why?
    LOOK AT ALL THE BOATS IN COMPETITION. DON'T YOU THINK IF A SMALL BLOCK WAS A CHEAPER MORE VIABLE SOURCE OF POWER EVERYBODY WOULD USE THEM? IT IS NOT SO MUCH ABOUT HOW MUCH HP YOU MAKE AS WHEN YOU MAKE IT[TORQUE],ESPECIALLY WITH A JET. BOTH MOTORS WILL RUN REALITIVELY THE SAME SPEED WITH THE EQUAL HP BUT THAT BBC IS GOING TO SPANK YOU OUT OF THE HOLE. COME ON LETS DIG

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    mo balls than $cents$ IMPATIENT 1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 74HONDO View Post
    LOOK AT ALL THE BOATS IN COMPETITION. DON'T YOU THINK IF A SMALL BLOCK WAS A CHEAPER MORE VIABLE SOURCE OF POWER EVERYBODY WOULD USE THEM? IT IS NOT SO MUCH ABOUT HOW MUCH HP YOU MAKE AS WHEN YOU MAKE IT[TORQUE],ESPECIALLY WITH A JET. BOTH MOTORS WILL RUN REALITIVELY THE SAME SPEED WITH THE EQUAL HP BUT THAT BBC IS GOING TO SPANK YOU OUT OF THE HOLE. COME ON LETS DIG
    tq to tq they're gna make about the same dont forget the ls is a 13.5* headed motor, its not a ole 350

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    just a ski boat with bark Carnivalride's Avatar
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    Ok just to give us BBC guys a little info on the newer LS stuff, what do they weigh? For instance what does an iron headed 6.0L out of a truck weigh? What about the aluminum headed 5.3L that's in my Tahoe? I understand to make something go faster you either add power, lose weight or both so what are we looking at for weight here?

    What is the bore, stroke, rod length, deck height etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    Carnivalride, you really need to find some other hobby. You have no talent for this boat thing

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    Distinguished Member David 519's Avatar
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    The LS motors seem to make power and if that's what you like, go for it. I know a few guys that run pretty hard with them in the asphalt stuff. You'll likely have to build your own headers/mounts and stuff, but none of that's hard. Personally, I think they're kinda funny looking, but I'm an old school BBC racer.
    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    ....... David 519 is 100% correct........

    Quote Originally Posted by fuelinmyveins82 View Post
    .....I think people forget that racing is supposed to fun. Losing shouldn't be discouraging it should motivate you work on your pile to make it faster.....

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    Senior Member Lildave's Avatar
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    Fully dressed accessories and all an Ls1 weighs 450lbs (aluminum block)

    The iron engines (4.8, 5.3, 6.0) are a little more

    Stroke 3.622"
    Rod length 6.098"
    Bore 3.898"

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    mo balls than $cents$ IMPATIENT 1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carnivalride View Post
    Ok just to give us BBC guys a little info on the newer LS stuff, what do they weigh? For instance what does an iron headed 6.0L out of a truck weigh? What about the aluminum headed 5.3L that's in my Tahoe? I understand to make something go faster you either add power, lose weight or both so what are we looking at for weight here?

    What is the bore, stroke, rod length, deck height etc.
    5.3 bore is 3.780 5.7 is 3.90 both use a 6.125 rod. all alum longblock 5.3 ships at 320lbs including wooden crate 40lbs more for the alum headed iron blocked counterparts.stock 5.3 300hp/ftlbs, which is bout the same as a stock 454 that came in most jetboats from the builder.


    dave, do a 6.0liter from a wrecking yard with low miles(bout 600ish outta pocket) change the rod bolts, stud the heads, double roller chain,gm 5layer hgaskets, shim the oil pump, nice cam, vic jr ls carb intake, 850 holley, msd 6010 ignition c.o.p. and a 200hp shot. easilyyyyy 600+ at the crank and tq pretty close to that using stock pistons/rods/rings/crank/bearings/heads/most of the valvetrain. buy some 3/8ths flanges and build some zoomies. that's basically what we're doin for my uncle's 17ft 300lb earl smith tunnel

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    just a ski boat with bark Carnivalride's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David 519 View Post
    The LS motors seem to make power and if that's what you like, go for it. I know a few guys that run pretty hard with them in the asphalt stuff. You'll likely have to build your own headers/mounts and stuff, but none of that's hard. Personally, I think they're kinda funny looking, but I'm an old school BBC racer.
    LOL, they do look at little different.

    It looks to me like their biggest advantage seems to be weight. So a ready to run LS with an iron block, intake, carb or efi, starter and headers would be roughly 450lbs max ready to drop in a boat and run? I will have to say that's got to be around 250lbs weight savings over a single carbed BBC with aluminum heads.

    However when power was brought up Tom compared to a stock modern detuned 454. Most BBC guys know that you can build a reliable pump gas 500hp/500tq rather easily and still stay budget minded. I think there are several BBC set ups on here running well into the 600hp range without anything wild.

    So basically will lesser power and a significant weight savings be faster? I think it would depend on your boat and set up. +/-250lbs on a 1500lb boat is a big difference, if your talking some of these older larger 2500lb plus deals it may not be as much of a factor.

    So how far can you twist an LS before in needs aftermarket valve springs, upgraded connecting rods, forged pistons? You know the drill.
    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    Carnivalride, you really need to find some other hobby. You have no talent for this boat thing

  13. #11
    Senior Member jetboatperformance's Avatar
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    Were very excited about these Ls motors and installs like Tommy's and have been working of late to develop products (mount kits etc) for them , they offer very good power , availability for "take outs" and repowers is good. Performance parts are being developed daily They're definately up and comers Tom


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    Quote Originally Posted by Carnivalride View Post
    LOL, they do look at little different.

    It looks to me like their biggest advantage seems to be weight. So a ready to run LS with an iron block, intake, carb or efi, starter and headers would be roughly 450lbs max ready to drop in a boat and run? I will have to say that's got to be around 250lbs weight savings over a single carbed BBC with aluminum heads.

    However when power was brought up Tom compared to a stock modern detuned 454. Most BBC guys know that you can build a reliable pump gas 500hp/500tq rather easily and still stay budget minded. I think there are several BBC set ups on here running well into the 600hp range without anything wild.

    So basically will lesser power and a significant weight savings be faster? I think it would depend on your boat and set up. +/-250lbs on a 1500lb boat is a big difference, if your talking some of these older larger 2500lb plus deals it may not be as much of a factor.

    So how far can you twist an LS before in needs aftermarket valve springs, upgraded connecting rods, forged pistons? You know the drill.
    i meant stock ls vs stock 454. gm doesnt even put bbc's in 3/4 tons anymore cuz the 6.0liter makes more hp and tq nowadays and is lighter.

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    Senior Member Lildave's Avatar
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    Below is a dyno graph (chassis dyno in a trans am 6spd) of a cam only (stock heads and bottom end, but upgraded pushrods and valve springs) car with bolt on's

    To answer your questions about spinning them..... 6600-6700ish with completely stock botom end. At 6800 the stock rod bolts start to stretch and can break and sling a rod. I've seen some stock bottom's last a while up to 7200 though.

    The fix for that is ARP rod bolts, and then your good. I've got plenty of buddies with stock bottom ends with ARP rod bolts turning 7200-7400

    http://www.thunderracing.com/images/...stockheads.gif

    Keep in mind.... This is cam only, and on a chassis dyno.

  16. #14
    Senior Member Lildave's Avatar
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    My boat probably weigh's 1400lbs with the iron headed BBC in it.

    I think it'd be right at 1000lbs with an LSx engine.

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